Ann Rollins, Chief Solutions Architect at the Ken Blanchard Companies, joins us to define hybrid learning and set the stage for why blended learning delivery is so important in today’s environment.
Transcript
Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of
Tom Moriarty:Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&D
Tom Moriarty:changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporate
Tom Moriarty:environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that from
Tom Moriarty:their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to make
Tom Moriarty:yourself, your people and your organization's more successful.
Tom Moriarty:In this first season, we're exploring the topic of hybrid
learning:what that means a different organizations, why it
learning:is increasingly important, and how L&D leaders can invest in
learning:the right resources to best leverage. Today, we're going to
learning:set the scene of what hybrid learning is and how it's changed
learning:in response to hybrid workforce. To do that, we've invited Ann
learning:Rollins, and she's the vice president of customer solutions,
learning:and the chief Solutions Architect with the Ken Blanchard
learning:Companies. And she's going to share some experiences that Ken
learning:Blanchard themselves has had, as well as some of the really
learning:interesting findings from the research report published in
2022 00:00:57
L&D in a Hybrid World. Ann, how are you today?
Ann Rollins:I'm doing great. Thanks so much. Thanks for
Ann Rollins:having me.
Tom Moriarty:Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you
Tom Moriarty:for taking the time today. Really quickly, before we jump
Tom Moriarty:into the actual podcast itself and start to dig into the topic
Tom Moriarty:of hybrid, why don't you introduce yourself and share a
Tom Moriarty:little bit about your background to the audience, for those who
Tom Moriarty:may not be familiar with you?
Ann Rollins:Yeah, for sure. So my name is Anne Rollins, and I
Ann Rollins:am, as as you mentioned, our Vice President of customer
Ann Rollins:solutions at the Ken Blanchard Companies. And in my role, I
Ann Rollins:oversee our teams of solution architects, our custom,
Ann Rollins:instructional designers and our production teams. And basically,
Ann Rollins:our role is to support our sales organization, and to be able to
Ann Rollins:come to the table and work with our clients who are really
Ann Rollins:trying to solve really large leadership problems. And so our
Ann Rollins:team, our solution architects, work with our clients to help
Ann Rollins:identify and then formulate a journey, and then we work to
Ann Rollins:help them breathe life into it. And then the rest of the
Ann Rollins:Blanchard team comes in and plays their part from a design
Ann Rollins:perspective. And then, of course, a delivery, perspective
Ann Rollins:measurement and all of those kinds of things.
Tom Moriarty:That's awesome. To set the stage properly, I'd like
Tom Moriarty:to start our discussion by defining some key terminology,
Tom Moriarty:because I believe that in many situations in business, you
Tom Moriarty:know, terms are used interchangeably, and sometimes
Tom Moriarty:they mean different things to different people. So I'd love to
Tom Moriarty:level set for our audience with a couple of definitions from
Tom Moriarty:your perspective. So if we can, I'm just gonna list out the term
Tom Moriarty:you jumped in with what your definition is. So let's start
Tom Moriarty:with blended learning. What does that mean to you?
Ann Rollins:You know, when we think about blended learning at
Ann Rollins:Blanchard, we're talking about learning that supports learners
Ann Rollins:wherever they are, whenever they are, right, it might be a person
Ann Rollins:who has 10 minutes at 10 o'clock at night, because they are
Ann Rollins:working in a warehouse as a leader. Or it might mean that it
Ann Rollins:is behind a desk in an office in a traditional setting or a home
Ann Rollins:office. But really, you know, could mean infusing some virtual
Ann Rollins:learning, some digital, some fieldwork, which is what we call
Ann Rollins:kind of the the connective tissue that happens between
Ann Rollins:formal moments of learning, and what could be try it activities
Ann Rollins:that they're going and doing on their own, maybe conversations
Ann Rollins:with their leaders, we're even infusing coaching into the mix.
Ann Rollins:So really, it's it's the infusion of all of the different
Ann Rollins:modalities, but in a really great curated way that resonates
Ann Rollins:with our learners because it meets them where they are, and
Ann Rollins:it's easy for them to do their development work within the flow
Ann Rollins:of their work in many cases.
Tom Moriarty:What about hybrid learning?
Ann Rollins:Hmm, yeah, you know, this, this term is kind of
Ann Rollins:flying around out there. And it's, it's a kind of a misnomer.
Ann Rollins:So when we think about hybrid learning, usually it's an
Ann Rollins:attempt to blend virtual and live participants into a single
Ann Rollins:synchronous session. It's a tough delivery method to pull
Ann Rollins:off really well. Although, you know, over at LT in London,
Ann Rollins:which is the Learning Technologies conference, they're
Ann Rollins:actually some technology companies that are coming up
Ann Rollins:with technology that's making hybrid learning a more effective
Ann Rollins:way to be able to reach your learner's if you have to go that
Ann Rollins:route.
Tom Moriarty:So blended, you know, just to recap blended is
Tom Moriarty:about blending the delivery method to meet the learner where
Tom Moriarty:they are, whereas hybrid is really in your terms and what
Tom Moriarty:you guys are seeing more of creating a single session that's
Tom Moriarty:for both people remote and maybe in person as well.
Ann Rollins:Exactly.
Tom Moriarty:Okay. What about virtual learning?
Ann Rollins:Yeah. You know, at Blanchard virtual learning, we
Ann Rollins:define it as, as the human driven live component of a
Ann Rollins:learning journey. You know, whether we're talking about, say
Ann Rollins:a course that has three virtual sessions, and of course, I
Ann Rollins:mentioned earlier with the blend, our virtual instructor
Ann Rollins:led training always has field work. So there's always work
Ann Rollins:that's happening in between the two. You know where might be
Ann Rollins:alive inspire session that serves as this live event that's
Ann Rollins:created to build and extend on what learners have already
Ann Rollins:completed in their formal journeys. And so really, to us
Ann Rollins:virtual equals a human element.
Tom Moriarty:Okay, and then last but not least, what about
Tom Moriarty:digital learning?
Ann Rollins:So So for us, you know, digital learning really
Ann Rollins:means anything that is designed to be consumed in a self
Ann Rollins:directed way first. So it could be your traditional SCORM
Ann Rollins:package, you know, your elearning course, where you
Ann Rollins:click Next to continue. And we have some courseware, that is
Ann Rollins:built in that way, SCORM packages, but for us, it also
Ann Rollins:means collections of microlearning nuggets that are
Ann Rollins:woven together to create a cohesive experience. So for
Ann Rollins:instance, it might be a selection of videos, a podcast,
Ann Rollins:and ebook, perhaps an activity for you to go and try a self
Ann Rollins:assessment, and then maybe some action planning work that you
Ann Rollins:might be doing. So for us digital looks quite different
Ann Rollins:from what it might look like for other organizations,
Tom Moriarty:Thank you for taking the time to define those
Tom Moriarty:terms. And I think it's helpful for the audience, you know, to
Tom Moriarty:just set the right context as we continue to unpack the world of
Tom Moriarty:learning and development in this hybrid world that we're, that
Tom Moriarty:we've been thrust into over the last few years. So to jump right
Tom Moriarty:in what you know, issues or specific challenges, are you
Tom Moriarty:guys seeing that learning teams are facing as a result of trying
Tom Moriarty:to work with and engage a hybrid workforce where you have maybe
Tom Moriarty:some parts of the audience there in person in the office, you
Tom Moriarty:have some parts remote? Or a mix of everything?
Ann Rollins:Yeah, and maybe I'll start with some statistics
Ann Rollins:from our, from our learning survey, which was completed in
Ann Rollins:q4 of last year. You know, really kind of stepping aside
Ann Rollins:from the hybrid learning question for a moment, you know,
Ann Rollins:Blanchard when when COVID changed the world as we know it
Ann Rollins:two years ago, Blanchard was a company that 90% of its business
Ann Rollins:was face to face training. And certainly there was some virtual
Tom Moriarty:That's great. And I think there's a lot, a lot
Tom Moriarty:training available, there were digital courses, but we were
Tom Moriarty:known as a face to face world class leadership development
Tom Moriarty:company. And that was the for the formative thrust on how the
Tom Moriarty:there. And that story, I mean, the fact that you guys, even
Tom Moriarty:work got done. You know, and really, when you think about
Tom Moriarty:yourselves at Blanchard, as an organization, in a matter of,
Tom Moriarty:when you think about the future, we're right now, today, 92% of
Tom Moriarty:our delivery, is designed and built for a blended experience
Tom Moriarty:is something that blends virtual, and digital, so it's
Tom Moriarty:that great blend of self directed, it's got some formal
Tom Moriarty:learning moments, it's got coaching, it's got social
Tom Moriarty:learning, you have a really, in the last couple of years, when
Tom Moriarty:we think about engaging our hybrid or hybrid learners, and
Tom Moriarty:the hybrid workforce, you know, the big themes that we saw from
Tom Moriarty:the Learning Trends survey that we did, just, you know, at the
Tom Moriarty:end of 2021, is that people are overloaded, they're tired,
Tom Moriarty:they're too busy to learn. The level of connection is dropping,
Tom Moriarty:you know, between between individuals at work, and we all
Tom Moriarty:have felt that, and it certainly creates a new dynamic for work.
Tom Moriarty:And then you add to that that L&D has been stretched and
Tom Moriarty:really dissatisfied with converted offerings. You know,
Tom Moriarty:there was this huge swing that, that in March and April of 2020,
Tom Moriarty:you know, in order to survive, we've got to take everything
Tom Moriarty:like this was literally the the the wild activity that was
Tom Moriarty:happening around the globe in L&D. Everybody had to transform
Tom Moriarty:everything from from face to face, to virtual or to digital.
Tom Moriarty:And there are some challenges there. Because the people who
Tom Moriarty:are building face to face learning don't necessarily have
Tom Moriarty:the skills to be able to design for effective, engaging vILT.
Tom Moriarty:And in fact, on the conference circuit, vILT probably had five
Tom Moriarty:to 10% of the total airtime at conferences like ATD and, and
Tom Moriarty:the Learning Guild, LSCon and DevLearn and other conferences.
Tom Moriarty:And so there wasn't even a lot of opportunity for most
Tom Moriarty:practitioners to even begin to learn how to do that well. And
Tom Moriarty:so suddenly, the mandate happened, we had to change on a
Tom Moriarty:dime. But but really, kind of fast forward two years. And as
Tom Moriarty:you know, call a 24 month period went from 90% face to face
Tom Moriarty:you know, we we were at ATD and spoke on design thinking for
Tom Moriarty:learning experiences in Salt Lake in August of last year, we
Tom Moriarty:were just at LS Con two weeks ago, and people have made the
Tom Moriarty:leap. But here's where they are today. You know, really, they
Tom Moriarty:know that if they could have waved a magic wand back then, is
Tom Moriarty:what they did, what they actually would have done if they
Tom Moriarty:could have done it right. And in almost all cases the answer's
Tom Moriarty:no. And so this is really an incredible time for being able
Tom Moriarty:to sit back and think about what what does good look like and And
Tom Moriarty:what are we going to do to really engage our learners. And
Tom Moriarty:so much of that now is through doing really great persona work,
Tom Moriarty:so that we can reach learners wherever they are around the
Tom Moriarty:world, and be able to, to create a unified learning solution that
Tom Moriarty:meets the needs of a number of different personas that all have
Tom Moriarty:unique needs. So kind of a long story. But really, it's been
Tom Moriarty:this extraordinary. Very, very fast moving, but now it's almost
Tom Moriarty:like the organi- you know, as an industry, we are maturing and
Tom Moriarty:moving in this direction. That's the way learning probably should
Tom Moriarty:have been happening all along.
Ann Rollins:Yeah, for sure. And there are definitely some
Ann Rollins:delivery, to having 92% of your delivery be designed in a
Ann Rollins:blended model. I mean, that's, that's an accomplishment that
Ann Rollins:shouldn't be overshadowed there. That's, that's, that's a, that's
Ann Rollins:a significant shift. It's, it's an impressive accomplishment.
Ann Rollins:For you guys, as a business. From that story, what I took
Ann Rollins:away, it sounded to me, you know, like, ultimately, the
Ann Rollins:context of the world and the pandemic created a need for
Ann Rollins:learning organizations, L&D groups all across the world, to
Ann Rollins:flip on a dime immediately, and just adopt a new delivery
Ann Rollins:approach and method, right, maybe maybe they were thinking
Ann Rollins:about it, maybe it was out there. But it had to happen. And
Ann Rollins:it had to happen overnight. And now I think what you're just
Ann Rollins:saying, Ann, is that the groups across after having to transform
Ann Rollins:flip on a dime in kind of almost adaptive survival mode, are now
Ann Rollins:getting the opportunity to look at what they're doing in this
Ann Rollins:new way. And try to define what what is good? How do we make
Ann Rollins:this the best possible product for our audience, and meet them
Ann Rollins:where they are? versus maybe having to physically come to
Ann Rollins:where we are, which still at times has challenges? What are
Ann Rollins:what are some of the challenges that the top challenges that you
Ann Rollins:guys are seeing, that our groups are facing when trying to define
Ann Rollins:that good? And and deliver it?
Ann Rollins:challenges. And I'll pull this right from our learning survey.
Ann Rollins:But before I do, I want to I want to go back to Blanchard
Ann Rollins:story. It took every heart and soul in our business to be able
Ann Rollins:to make that happen. Our president talked about the
Ann Rollins:flywheel like you think about the flywheel and an engine,
Ann Rollins:basically, exploding, right? Like you need a new flywheel.
Ann Rollins:And it caused every process to have to change. And so think
Ann Rollins:about this. This was our story. We're a learning and development
Ann Rollins:company. But in businesses that are not learning and development
Ann Rollins:companies, every process around how learning happens had to
Ann Rollins:change every process around how they reach people, the processes
Ann Rollins:for engaging people for communicating with people,
Ann Rollins:everything had to change, your project management approaches
Ann Rollins:have to change your technology strategy has to change. And so
Ann Rollins:this extraordinary effort that really - and the toil, the toil
Ann Rollins:for so many learning organizations, was something
Ann Rollins:unlike will ever see. Now, what I'll say is that, you know, for
Ann Rollins:those who are kind of the dreamers in industry, and have
Ann Rollins:been kind of following along the conference circuit, and in
Ann Rollins:publications since 2011, and 12, and 13. It was like this vision
Ann Rollins:of being able to build journeys that were deployed and supported
Ann Rollins:by seamless, great technology. It was almost like this promise
Ann Rollins:that was never going to come through. But But given the toil,
Ann Rollins:there are some really great solutions out there now that
Ann Rollins:make these things that were a dream in early 2020, the reality
Ann Rollins:for the way a lot of organizations learn. But some of
Ann Rollins:the challenges let's go to the challenges that were that we've
Ann Rollins:seen as a result, and that I'm when I'm talking to clients on
Ann Rollins:the phone, these are the things that we have been hearing. You
Ann Rollins:know, in our learning survey, 59% of respondents said they
Ann Rollins:knew they needed more learner engagement. 59%. 54% said that
Ann Rollins:their learners wanted more social interaction. 50% said
Ann Rollins:they wanted more learning touchpoints over time. 46% said
Ann Rollins:they wanted integration, the flow of work, it's too hard for
Ann Rollins:me now to step outside of the flow of my work, to be able to
Ann Rollins:go and do my learning. And then 38% said that they wanted more
Ann Rollins:accountability to finish. And so when we think about these kinds
Ann Rollins:of challenges as a result of the new virtual and digital designs,
Ann Rollins:you know, what we're hearing is that learning practitioners and
Ann Rollins:their learners, while learning that works better for them. And
Ann Rollins:so, it's really about rethinking your content strategy from the
Ann Rollins:learning professional perspective, that I need to
Ann Rollins:teach my learners how to do X, Y, and Z. I need the people in
Ann Rollins:our customer care department to be able to hit these key
Ann Rollins:objectives, and what do they need to do that? What are the
Ann Rollins:skills that they need? What are the competence, they need to be
Ann Rollins:able to demonstrate that? And then from there, how do I build
Ann Rollins:to a strategy, that is, there's going to allow them to get what
Ann Rollins:they need when they need it. Because so much of the learning
Ann Rollins:happens, where we preload it, by the time they need it, they
Ann Rollins:don't even remember it, you know, how do we make tools that
Ann Rollins:are ready, and easy for them to learn and easy for them to find
Ann Rollins:and then use when they need them. And certainly, certainly
Ann Rollins:being able to stretch learning out, so that it happens over
Ann Rollins:time. When we're, when we're learning to perform a skill
Ann Rollins:outside of work. You know, for some things that are a quick
Ann Rollins:task, we might go, you know, online, and we might find a
Ann Rollins:video to show us how to do it, you know, but but for me,
Ann Rollins:example, you know, if you're one of the things that I want to do
Ann Rollins:is I want to go into a sommelier course and become a sommelier.
Ann Rollins:You know, that is a sophisticated skill set. And
Ann Rollins:there are courses become a sommelier in just 14 days.
Ann Rollins:That's not gonna work. These are skills that scaffold, there's
Ann Rollins:knowledge that I have to scaffold, piece by piece, one on
Ann Rollins:to the next. And it needs to happen over time. And there are
Ann Rollins:so many skills in our lives that we need to be learning over
Ann Rollins:time. And so that quick, it virtual converting eight hours
Ann Rollins:of ILT into two, four hour sessions, it's just not working
Ann Rollins:for people.
Tom Moriarty:What I take away from that as well, right is,
Tom Moriarty:it's like you said, You've got all- a learning professional,
Tom Moriarty:and you've got the learners who are both saying the same thing:
Tom Moriarty:we need to get, we need to, you know, get this information in
Tom Moriarty:the right people's hands to accomplish business objectives
Tom Moriarty:at the right times, right. I mean, it sounds like, from what
Tom Moriarty:I'm hearing, you know, a lot of this is going to be really
Tom Moriarty:relevant to how you think about content design, because you just
Tom Moriarty:hit a, you know, huge takeaway for me is, you can't just take
Tom Moriarty:your traditional instructor led course, it's built and designed
Tom Moriarty:this way to be delivered over maybe a couple of sessions over
Tom Moriarty:a couple of different hours over a couple of days. And flip that
Tom Moriarty:to be virtual, shorten it up a little bit, because people's
Tom Moriarty:attention spans change when they're in front of a computer
Tom Moriarty:and not in front of the human. And think that you're okay.
Tom Moriarty:Right, I think it really is, I would imagine going to hinge a
Tom Moriarty:lot on how organizations think about the content they're
Tom Moriarty:delivering and delivering it the right way at the right time.
Ann Rollins:Yeah, it's true. It's true. I've done a number of
Ann Rollins:sessions on the conference circuit that's really literally
Ann Rollins:called reimagining your content strategy. And, you know, as we
Ann Rollins:delivered our session at LS Con, about using design thinking to
Ann Rollins:create high impact learning experiences, you know, part of
Ann Rollins:that is when you're using design thinking, you're really starting
Ann Rollins:with the who and the persona work, right. And then from
Ann Rollins:there, you're looking at kind of what you're solving for. And
Ann Rollins:then from there, you're going into ideation of what the
Ann Rollins:solution could look like, solutions can look like a lot of
Ann Rollins:things. But But so many of us have, you know, long form
Ann Rollins:courses. Long Form vILTs. So when I say vILT, I'm talking
Ann Rollins:about virtual instructor led training. Well, what about what
Ann Rollins:about, you know, looking at, say, a series of vIl T's that
Ann Rollins:might be a total of six hours three to our virtual sessions?
Ann Rollins:And what about framing it and looking at each discrete
Ann Rollins:activity that's happening in that virtual instructor led
Ann Rollins:training, looking at the time it's taking, what is the
Ann Rollins:outcome? And what is another way that you would be able to frame
Ann Rollins:that for your learners. So so instead of it being me doing a
Ann Rollins:six minute content introduction, why couldn't we have them maybe
Ann Rollins:read an article or have a quick, a quick explainer video and then
Ann Rollins:complete a self assessment? Check, check, done done. Right.
Ann Rollins:And so that covers kind of that module? And so we actually have
Ann Rollins:templates and tools, and we'll share those with listeners too.
Ann Rollins:And it's a simple template, but it just walks you through taking
Ann Rollins:something that was and how could you reimagine it in a way that
Ann Rollins:is going to be more nimble, and more more user friendly for your
Ann Rollins:learner's.
Tom Moriarty:I love the takeaway of of that. The idea of
Tom Moriarty:design thinking, right, looking first at the persona, who are we
Tom Moriarty:trying to address? What are we trying to accomplish with this?
Tom Moriarty:And then, okay, what's the best solution to accomplish that
Tom Moriarty:outcome? And looking at what you have and mapping it to, you
Tom Moriarty:know, maybe some other alternatives that you haven't
Tom Moriarty:done Okay. Let me ask you a new question to kind of continue on
Tom Moriarty:this topic, but less about challenges, what? What are a few
Tom Moriarty:key things that, you know, learning teams should be
Tom Moriarty:planning for, or actioning on right now to continue to evolve
Tom Moriarty:to that picture of what good looks like?
Ann Rollins:Yeah, you know, and I've said it a couple of times,
Ann Rollins:but it can't be It can't be said too many times at this point,
Ann Rollins:you know, to, to bring in a design thinking approach, and
Ann Rollins:not like full capital D, capital T design thinking, but a lighter
Ann Rollins:approach, and really focusing on the who first and staying with
Ann Rollins:the who. So building out your personas, and we do this work
Ann Rollins:with our clients, you know, really getting clear on who
Ann Rollins:we're solving for, what do we want them doing thinking saying
Ann Rollins:and feeling differently as a result, because when I do that,
Ann Rollins:that becomes my true north on what I'm designing to. And so as
Ann Rollins:we get into the design, and for our, for our learning journey,
Ann Rollins:so at Blanchard, you, we have a number of different models. So
Ann Rollins:we sell our off the shelf program. We have clients who
Ann Rollins:love SL2 and they want to bring SL2 into the organization with
Ann Rollins:other clients who say, you know, we have, we have a level, a
Ann Rollins:senior level leader group that is actually our pool, or
Ann Rollins:candidate pool for our next level vice president. And they
Ann Rollins:are missing some fundamental skills that we want them
Ann Rollins:prepared for that move. And so we're really looking for a
Ann Rollins:journey that happens over time, that's going to scaffold skills
Ann Rollins:for them. And so being able to create that, what are they going
Ann Rollins:to do think, say, feel differently, as a result allows
Ann Rollins:us when we're going into a process for a lengthy journey,
Ann Rollins:and we're building out maybe some custom things is we can go
Ann Rollins:back to that persona, and that that learner resonance exercise,
Ann Rollins:and it's our true north, is this going to support this, you know,
Ann Rollins:doing saying thinking feeling differently? And if not, maybe
Ann Rollins:it's not required? Maybe it's a nice to have, but not a need to
Ann Rollins:have. And so that really helps us with the content approach.
Ann Rollins:But also, when we use that approach, and we've got our
Ann Rollins:persona defined, then we can really start looking at like,
Ann Rollins:how are we going to build out a journey framework for these
Ann Rollins:learners, something that is going to, you know, provide
Ann Rollins:multiple touch points, it's gonna provide a blended journey
Ann Rollins:that allows learners to have a lot more control over their
Ann Rollins:experience. Because if I've got 10 or 15 minutes, I can pop into
Ann Rollins:my work and pop back out. And that's, you know, that's another
Ann Rollins:really great tool that I'll share is we've got, we've got
Ann Rollins:templates for building personas, and the journey framework model.
Ann Rollins:And these are things that help you decide how are you going to
Ann Rollins:measure this solution? What are the push and pull elements? How
Ann Rollins:are we going to push content to our people? How are we going to
Ann Rollins:pull them back? And bring them back? And what does that look
Ann Rollins:like? Where are opportunities for social learning using?
Ann Rollins:Here's what we have in the ecosystem today? You know, so
Ann Rollins:we've got a got a lovely client who is deploying a long
Ann Rollins:journey... 18 actually, with the the Capstone, it's 20 weeks long
Ann Rollins:on the Degreed platform. And we're using discussions to tie
Ann Rollins:back everything they're learning to their fundamental frontline
Ann Rollins:leader DEI competencies. And so all of those discussions happen
Ann Rollins:on Microsoft Teams. So you don't have to have a sophisticated
Ann Rollins:platform that does it all. It's about getting really creative
Ann Rollins:about the tools you do have, and finding ways to to use them in
Ann Rollins:meaningful ways that support the learning goals.
Tom Moriarty:I love that I think, you know, the the couple
Tom Moriarty:of notes, I was jotting down as you were because you were
Tom Moriarty:speaking, I think that that specific example is that you
Tom Moriarty:shared as one of them is a really good one that you have a
Tom Moriarty:very clear persona to senior manager group that is the
Tom Moriarty:candidate pool to become a VP. Well, you need to be a VP in
Tom Moriarty:that organization is different than when what you need to be a
Tom Moriarty:senior manager. Okay, that's what I need to get their
Tom Moriarty:competencies to, I've got something to map to, I know
Tom Moriarty:there's a certain time horizon. Now how do we build the right
Tom Moriarty:approach and the right framework, facilitating that
Tom Moriarty:that is really such a nice TrueNorth? Because it can bring
Tom Moriarty:you back each time and saying, Hey, is this going to help us
Tom Moriarty:accomplish that goal? Okay, now, it makes sense, you know, to,
Tom Moriarty:you know, apply that journey, or apply this tool to that journey.
Tom Moriarty:Right. And I think that's a that's a really, I believe,
Tom Moriarty:valuable takeaway that our audience can think about and
Tom Moriarty:even just using that example, because I think that's one that
Tom Moriarty:could be relatable to most people in their own
Tom Moriarty:organization, think about what that would be like in your
Tom Moriarty:organization. Okay, well now apply that to your same logic to
Tom Moriarty:your new persona.
Ann Rollins:Right. You know, one of the other things too, is
Ann Rollins:that we'll have clients that will say these are our
Ann Rollins:management competencies, and we need a journey built to our
Ann Rollins:management competencies and the competencies are really
Ann Rollins:important, because organizationally, there are
Ann Rollins:there are TrueNorth these are the these are the expected
Ann Rollins:competencies from a more - typically a more kind of a
Ann Rollins:research based perspective. But we want to know what does that
Ann Rollins:look like in practice? And in real life? What does it- How
Ann Rollins:does that- how does it show up when they have that? Because
Ann Rollins:that helps us to really suss out? What are the what are the
Ann Rollins:kinds of activities that we want them doing? What are the kinds
Ann Rollins:of conversations we want them having with their leaders,
Ann Rollins:because it's so important that, you know, when we're talking
Ann Rollins:about engaging these, these learners who are who are still
Ann Rollins:scattered, you know, to be able to create organic opportunities,
Ann Rollins:where they're discussing with people, where they're having
Ann Rollins:conversations with their leader, and particularly, I mean, are
Ann Rollins:obviously ours is the leader context, I worked for Blanchard,
Ann Rollins:but I came from before I was at Blanchard shortly before the
Ann Rollins:pandemic started, I came from a custom content company. And so
Ann Rollins:we were building training on how to build nuclear subs and
Ann Rollins:customer service. And, you know, medical, pharmaceutical type
Ann Rollins:sales training, so any kind of training, but when I talk about
Ann Rollins:it, the leader context because that's my world. But
Ann Rollins:opportunities for conversations to happen between the people who
Ann Rollins:are learning and the people who lead them, and getting the
Ann Rollins:opportunity for them to learn from the experience of their
Ann Rollins:leader, I'll give you a simple example. But and this could be
Ann Rollins:rendered, whether it's customer service training, or its
Ann Rollins:technical skills training. But imagine at the end of, of a live
Ann Rollins:session, you know, some of that kind of, I caught that
Ann Rollins:interstitial work that connective tissue, you know,
Ann Rollins:they're gonna, they're gonna have a one on one with their
Ann Rollins:leader after every live session. And using an example, for one
Ann Rollins:that has nine modules of content. So nine live sessions
Ann Rollins:over time, we give them two prompts to talk about with their
Ann Rollins:leader. Now, of course, their leader has not gone through this
Ann Rollins:training. So they've not had the benefit of understanding the
Ann Rollins:model and the skills. But what does that give to me, it gives
Ann Rollins:me an opportunity to be able to hear about something real,
Ann Rollins:that's happening, for instance, share with me a time when you
Ann Rollins:were not as empathetic as you needed to be with one of your
Ann Rollins:employees, and what was the impact of that. And me, I've
Ann Rollins:just gone through a module on awareness and empathy. And, and
Ann Rollins:I'm able to hear the story, a real story about about perhaps
Ann Rollins:damaged reputation or broken trust. And I'm able to bounce
Ann Rollins:that story, that real story off of what I just learned and go,
Ann Rollins:that's a cautionary tale, I don't want to be I, you know, I
Ann Rollins:want to be the better leader. And so given the opportunities
Ann Rollins:for that organic connection between your learners, and the
Ann Rollins:people who lead them, or people who work beside them, someone
Ann Rollins:more senior than them, that's a really easy thing to infuse. And
Ann Rollins:it's extraordinarily valuable, especially in today's world,
Tom Moriarty:That's a great nugget, I think that, you know,
Tom Moriarty:the idea of just infusing that one on one and be able to, you
Tom Moriarty:know, take that away as part of a tool to add into learning
Tom Moriarty:journey. I love that, that it's, that's great. You know, could
Tom Moriarty:you we've talked a lot about using design thinking, you know,
Tom Moriarty:reworking this, this journey, and how to approach, you know,
Tom Moriarty:changing your content, changing your delivery methods, really at
Tom Moriarty:a high level throughout all of this. Right. And I think that
Tom Moriarty:that's something that most learning organizations are
Tom Moriarty:realizing, especially over the context of the last 24 months,
Tom Moriarty:is hugely important. How can you start, right, I think that that
Tom Moriarty:was, that's one really good takeaway of, you know, add those
Tom Moriarty:one on one conversations as part of your modules. But what are
Tom Moriarty:some other, you know, key tactical takeaways our audience
Tom Moriarty:can have leaving this conversation to help, you know,
Tom Moriarty:rethink, if you will, how, how you're delivering your content,
Tom Moriarty:and how you're reaching your audience better.
Ann Rollins:One aspect that we didn't talk about yet, which is
Ann Rollins:a really big deal for us, is measurements, and so many, so
Ann Rollins:many learning organizations are still kind of in infancy in
Ann Rollins:terms of measurement. So measuring, measuring your, your,
Ann Rollins:your confidence, and your readiness to apply new skills.
Ann Rollins:And where are you today post learning where were you before
Ann Rollins:learning? And, you know, we don't do we don't do a pre
Ann Rollins:assess at Blanchard because people always over the state
Ann Rollins:their skills. You know, they'll say, Oh, I'm great at setting
Ann Rollins:goals. And then they have the goal setting module. And I'm
Ann Rollins:like, Oh, I actually, that's not how I did it. And how I did it
Ann Rollins:was not as great as I thought I was. And so, so infusing
Ann Rollins:measurement into everything that you're doing so that you can see
Ann Rollins:what's working quickly and make modifications to it. And so just
Ann Rollins:being able to ask, you know, what is your confidence and your
Ann Rollins:readiness to apply XYZ skill in your work, and that's right
Ann Rollins:after they complete their learning. And then 60 days
Ann Rollins:later, you go out and you post them again, and you let them
Ann Rollins:know this is really important for you to be part of this,
Ann Rollins:because if if we're not hitting the mark, this gives us the
Ann Rollins:evidence that we need to be able to shift to what we're doing.
Ann Rollins:And so that's a really important piece that I think warrants some
Ann Rollins:conversation. And measurement, a lot of folks are nervous because
Ann Rollins:it they feel like it's cumbersome, or it's difficult.
Ann Rollins:You know, you can do in a lot of ways we use teams polls in live
Ann Rollins:team sessions, because we can save them and we can pull, we
Ann Rollins:can export the data and save it over time, you could use MS
Ann Rollins:forms to be able to grab that. And for a lot of it for
Ann Rollins:sessions, where we're doing digital learning that really
Ann Rollins:nice blend digital learning with live component, we're actually
Ann Rollins:doing the the measurement surveys, we're actually doing it
Ann Rollins:as part of the live session, like in the last four minutes.
Ann Rollins:So so please do it. That way we can make that that case of how
Ann Rollins:important it is. And really where we're hitting the mark,
Ann Rollins:and where we should change things for the next group going
Ann Rollins:through. And then of course, that 60 Day follow up, they
Ann Rollins:understand, you know, this becomes really important
Ann Rollins:because, you know, we want to see your competence, your
Ann Rollins:competence grow. But of course, that means I've got to have a
Ann Rollins:sustainment strategy, right, I've got to be able to have
Ann Rollins:resources for them to go back to, which becomes another parts
Ann Rollins:of the picture. So when you're thinking about it, you no
Ann Rollins:question at all, it's not just the design, it's your
Ann Rollins:stakeholder involvement, getting your executive stakeholders
Ann Rollins:sponsors involved early, it's keeping your leaders of
Ann Rollins:participants appraised and what's happening so that they
Ann Rollins:can hold learners accountable for behavior change. It's about
Ann Rollins:the measurement piece, you know, now and, and at some point in
Ann Rollins:the future. So it's the it's the whole thing, the elegant design,
Ann Rollins:of course, and the sustainment strategy, we call, we actually
Ann Rollins:call that the five critical success factors. At Blanchard we
Ann Rollins:have white paper on, I'll put the link so that we can share
Ann Rollins:that with folks. But when we're thinking about those kinds of
Ann Rollins:things early, and we're when we're especially when we're
Ann Rollins:going through a rethink on, you know, if we could redo this,
Ann Rollins:what would we do with it? And when we factor those five
Ann Rollins:critical success factors in if money, you know, you're just
Ann Rollins:you're gonna hit the mark, with a solution that works that you
Ann Rollins:can prove. And that's really what we're trying to get.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, that's great. I think those are very
Tom Moriarty:clear and simple and actionable takeaways. I love the idea of
Tom Moriarty:measurement. I think that's you train the confidence, measuring
Tom Moriarty:competence and readiness to apply the skills and doing it
Tom Moriarty:not only then right at the right at the point of the end of that
Tom Moriarty:moment in time, but also 60 days later, I think it's great. And
Tom Moriarty:that's an interesting takeaway on the avoiding pre session
Tom Moriarty:assessments, because because they tend to get overstated. So
Tom Moriarty:I think that's awesome, but not surprising. Yeah. Nothing wrong
Tom Moriarty:with someone being confident, right?
Ann Rollins:That's right. But don't skew my data.
Tom Moriarty:Exactly. Oh, that's, that's a good takeaway
Tom Moriarty:for the audience. I think a lot of people I wouldn't have I
Tom Moriarty:personally wouldn't have thought of that in the past. I think
Tom Moriarty:that that's, that's great. I love you know, I said this
Tom Moriarty:earlier, but I really love your focus, especially in those five
Tom Moriarty:critical success factors of making sure the stakeholders are
Tom Moriarty:involved. And also the leadership involvement in the
Tom Moriarty:actual coursework or delivery itself, right, those follow up
Tom Moriarty:one on ones, those discussions, those stories, that an employee
Tom Moriarty:can take away with their leader on how applying a skill or a
Tom Moriarty:real life situation had an impact. I mean, you know, my,
Tom Moriarty:it's my personal belief that those stories are really the
Tom Moriarty:things that actually can ultimately submit a lesson in
Tom Moriarty:practice. So I love that takeaway. And hopefully, that's
Tom Moriarty:something that the audience can really start to apply to their
Tom Moriarty:their learning journeys. And I think that's really valuable.
Tom Moriarty:What else any other sort of closing thoughts and you think
Tom Moriarty:that we need to cover that the audience can get value out
Ann Rollins:You know, a lot of them will say, I don't know what
Ann Rollins:all the options are. So if I'm taking four hours of vILT, and
Ann Rollins:I've got to do something with it, and my my analogy that I
Ann Rollins:use, like imagine if you go to like a picnic, and you get your
Ann Rollins:picnic basket and all your stuffs in there, and you lay
Ann Rollins:down on the blanket, I'm going to grab that picnic, black, that
Ann Rollins:picnic blanket, and I'm going to grab it, I'm going to shake it.
Ann Rollins:And I'm just going to grab the things that I want that are
Ann Rollins:flying from what was all together in a nice, neat
Ann Rollins:package. And I'm going to retell a new story with just the things
Ann Rollins:that I want from it. And so the question becomes, what, what are
Ann Rollins:my options for doing something different? Let's say I've got a
Ann Rollins:group activity that happens in a virtual classroom, and it lasts
Ann Rollins:about 15 minutes, what are my options to do something
Ann Rollins:different with that experience? And so I've got an entire list
Ann Rollins:of options of things just it's a massive brain Storm of all the
Ann Rollins:really great stuff that you could be thinking about to do
Ann Rollins:something different. And so I think kind of opening our minds
Ann Rollins:to, it doesn't have to be click Next to continue. It doesn't
Ann Rollins:have to be an article. It doesn't have to be alive
Ann Rollins:PowerPoint presentation with a facilitator talking to it, it
Ann Rollins:could look like so many different things. And so I think
Ann Rollins:that, that that's another really important part of the puzzle.
Tom Moriarty:That's great. I really appreciate all the
Tom Moriarty:resources that you're, you're going to be sharing over to us
Tom Moriarty:and we'll include all those all those links in our show notes so
Tom Moriarty:that the audience can go go have themselves lots of homework and
Tom Moriarty:lots of resources to continue to improve the learning journeys
Tom Moriarty:that are happening within their organizations. And this has been
Tom Moriarty:fantastic if the audience wants to hear more from you and learn
Tom Moriarty:more about what you're doing. What's where's the where can
Tom Moriarty:they find you?
Ann Rollins:Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. Ann Renee Rollins. The
Ann Rollins:only Ann Renee Rollins, and I have red hair, so you won't miss
Ann Rollins:me. So there and on Twitter, AnniBabyCan, and I think those
Ann Rollins:are the two kind of places where I tend to be reasonably active.
Ann Rollins:If you attend conferences, I'm I'm always there. But like my
Ann Rollins:closing, my closing thought and inspiration for all of you is
Ann Rollins:like L&D, this is our moment. This is our moment to shine. And
Ann Rollins:for all of the pulling and cajoling of all the years of
Ann Rollins:trying to innovate, and saying, no one wants to innovate.
Ann Rollins:Suddenly, everyone had to innovate at warp speed. And this
Ann Rollins:is work where we absolutely have the opportunity to be the
Ann Rollins:champions. And I, I firmly believe that and it has been a
Ann Rollins:joy and an honor to help and share, share what's working. I
Ann Rollins:mean, we've made mistakes along the way, don't get me wrong, but
Ann Rollins:to share what's working because we have all of these
Ann Rollins:opportunities right in front of us, for us to do different and
Ann Rollins:great things for our organizations, and for our
Ann Rollins:employees too.
Tom Moriarty:Thanks, Ann. I love that closing thought it's
Tom Moriarty:inspiring. And I think it is definitely an inspiring time to
Tom Moriarty:be in the world of learning and development, both for you and
Tom Moriarty:for the teams given the context. So thank you so much for your
Tom Moriarty:time today. We really appreciate it. Take care. Thank you.
Ann Rollins:Take care, everyone.
Tom Moriarty:Thank you for joining us for our debut episode
Tom Moriarty:of The Secret Society of Success: Lessons and Inspiration
Tom Moriarty:from Corporate Learning & Development. We're diving into
Tom Moriarty:hybrid learning with four more episodes releasing June 1. The
Tom Moriarty:Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo the better way
Tom Moriarty:to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk of the Trade for
Tom Moriarty:tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders. Visit
