Hybrid Learning: Why We’re Talking About It Now

Ann Rollins, Chief Solutions Architect at the Ken Blanchard Companies, joins us to define hybrid learning and set the stage for why blended learning delivery is so important in today’s environment.

Transcript
Tom Moriarty:

Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of

Tom Moriarty:

Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&D

Tom Moriarty:

changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporate

Tom Moriarty:

environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that from

Tom Moriarty:

their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to make

Tom Moriarty:

yourself, your people and your organization's more successful.

Tom Moriarty:

In this first season, we're exploring the topic of hybrid

learning:

what that means a different organizations, why it

learning:

is increasingly important, and how L&D leaders can invest in

learning:

the right resources to best leverage. Today, we're going to

learning:

set the scene of what hybrid learning is and how it's changed

learning:

in response to hybrid workforce. To do that, we've invited Ann

learning:

Rollins, and she's the vice president of customer solutions,

learning:

and the chief Solutions Architect with the Ken Blanchard

learning:

Companies. And she's going to share some experiences that Ken

learning:

Blanchard themselves has had, as well as some of the really

learning:

interesting findings from the research report published in

:

L&D in a Hybrid World. Ann, how are you today?

Ann Rollins:

I'm doing great. Thanks so much. Thanks for

Ann Rollins:

having me.

Tom Moriarty:

Thank you so much for joining us. And thank you

Tom Moriarty:

for taking the time today. Really quickly, before we jump

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into the actual podcast itself and start to dig into the topic

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of hybrid, why don't you introduce yourself and share a

Tom Moriarty:

little bit about your background to the audience, for those who

Tom Moriarty:

may not be familiar with you?

Ann Rollins:

Yeah, for sure. So my name is Anne Rollins, and I

Ann Rollins:

am, as as you mentioned, our Vice President of customer

Ann Rollins:

solutions at the Ken Blanchard Companies. And in my role, I

Ann Rollins:

oversee our teams of solution architects, our custom,

Ann Rollins:

instructional designers and our production teams. And basically,

Ann Rollins:

our role is to support our sales organization, and to be able to

Ann Rollins:

come to the table and work with our clients who are really

Ann Rollins:

trying to solve really large leadership problems. And so our

Ann Rollins:

team, our solution architects, work with our clients to help

Ann Rollins:

identify and then formulate a journey, and then we work to

Ann Rollins:

help them breathe life into it. And then the rest of the

Ann Rollins:

Blanchard team comes in and plays their part from a design

Ann Rollins:

perspective. And then, of course, a delivery, perspective

Ann Rollins:

measurement and all of those kinds of things.

Tom Moriarty:

That's awesome. To set the stage properly, I'd like

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to start our discussion by defining some key terminology,

Tom Moriarty:

because I believe that in many situations in business, you

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know, terms are used interchangeably, and sometimes

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they mean different things to different people. So I'd love to

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level set for our audience with a couple of definitions from

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your perspective. So if we can, I'm just gonna list out the term

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you jumped in with what your definition is. So let's start

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with blended learning. What does that mean to you?

Ann Rollins:

You know, when we think about blended learning at

Ann Rollins:

Blanchard, we're talking about learning that supports learners

Ann Rollins:

wherever they are, whenever they are, right, it might be a person

Ann Rollins:

who has 10 minutes at 10 o'clock at night, because they are

Ann Rollins:

working in a warehouse as a leader. Or it might mean that it

Ann Rollins:

is behind a desk in an office in a traditional setting or a home

Ann Rollins:

office. But really, you know, could mean infusing some virtual

Ann Rollins:

learning, some digital, some fieldwork, which is what we call

Ann Rollins:

kind of the the connective tissue that happens between

Ann Rollins:

formal moments of learning, and what could be try it activities

Ann Rollins:

that they're going and doing on their own, maybe conversations

Ann Rollins:

with their leaders, we're even infusing coaching into the mix.

Ann Rollins:

So really, it's it's the infusion of all of the different

Ann Rollins:

modalities, but in a really great curated way that resonates

Ann Rollins:

with our learners because it meets them where they are, and

Ann Rollins:

it's easy for them to do their development work within the flow

Ann Rollins:

of their work in many cases.

Tom Moriarty:

What about hybrid learning?

Ann Rollins:

Hmm, yeah, you know, this, this term is kind of

Ann Rollins:

flying around out there. And it's, it's a kind of a misnomer.

Ann Rollins:

So when we think about hybrid learning, usually it's an

Ann Rollins:

attempt to blend virtual and live participants into a single

Ann Rollins:

synchronous session. It's a tough delivery method to pull

Ann Rollins:

off really well. Although, you know, over at LT in London,

Ann Rollins:

which is the Learning Technologies conference, they're

Ann Rollins:

actually some technology companies that are coming up

Ann Rollins:

with technology that's making hybrid learning a more effective

Ann Rollins:

way to be able to reach your learner's if you have to go that

Ann Rollins:

route.

Tom Moriarty:

So blended, you know, just to recap blended is

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about blending the delivery method to meet the learner where

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they are, whereas hybrid is really in your terms and what

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you guys are seeing more of creating a single session that's

Tom Moriarty:

for both people remote and maybe in person as well.

Ann Rollins:

Exactly.

Tom Moriarty:

Okay. What about virtual learning?

Ann Rollins:

Yeah. You know, at Blanchard virtual learning, we

Ann Rollins:

define it as, as the human driven live component of a

Ann Rollins:

learning journey. You know, whether we're talking about, say

Ann Rollins:

a course that has three virtual sessions, and of course, I

Ann Rollins:

mentioned earlier with the blend, our virtual instructor

Ann Rollins:

led training always has field work. So there's always work

Ann Rollins:

that's happening in between the two. You know where might be

Ann Rollins:

alive inspire session that serves as this live event that's

Ann Rollins:

created to build and extend on what learners have already

Ann Rollins:

completed in their formal journeys. And so really, to us

Ann Rollins:

virtual equals a human element.

Tom Moriarty:

Okay, and then last but not least, what about

Tom Moriarty:

digital learning?

Ann Rollins:

So So for us, you know, digital learning really

Ann Rollins:

means anything that is designed to be consumed in a self

Ann Rollins:

directed way first. So it could be your traditional SCORM

Ann Rollins:

package, you know, your elearning course, where you

Ann Rollins:

click Next to continue. And we have some courseware, that is

Ann Rollins:

built in that way, SCORM packages, but for us, it also

Ann Rollins:

means collections of microlearning nuggets that are

Ann Rollins:

woven together to create a cohesive experience. So for

Ann Rollins:

instance, it might be a selection of videos, a podcast,

Ann Rollins:

and ebook, perhaps an activity for you to go and try a self

Ann Rollins:

assessment, and then maybe some action planning work that you

Ann Rollins:

might be doing. So for us digital looks quite different

Ann Rollins:

from what it might look like for other organizations,

Tom Moriarty:

Thank you for taking the time to define those

Tom Moriarty:

terms. And I think it's helpful for the audience, you know, to

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just set the right context as we continue to unpack the world of

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learning and development in this hybrid world that we're, that

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we've been thrust into over the last few years. So to jump right

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in what you know, issues or specific challenges, are you

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guys seeing that learning teams are facing as a result of trying

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to work with and engage a hybrid workforce where you have maybe

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some parts of the audience there in person in the office, you

Tom Moriarty:

have some parts remote? Or a mix of everything?

Ann Rollins:

Yeah, and maybe I'll start with some statistics

Ann Rollins:

from our, from our learning survey, which was completed in

Ann Rollins:

q4 of last year. You know, really kind of stepping aside

Ann Rollins:

from the hybrid learning question for a moment, you know,

Ann Rollins:

Blanchard when when COVID changed the world as we know it

Ann Rollins:

two years ago, Blanchard was a company that 90% of its business

Ann Rollins:

was face to face training. And certainly there was some virtual

Tom Moriarty:

That's great. And I think there's a lot, a lot

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training available, there were digital courses, but we were

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known as a face to face world class leadership development

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company. And that was the for the formative thrust on how the

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there. And that story, I mean, the fact that you guys, even

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work got done. You know, and really, when you think about

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yourselves at Blanchard, as an organization, in a matter of,

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when you think about the future, we're right now, today, 92% of

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our delivery, is designed and built for a blended experience

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is something that blends virtual, and digital, so it's

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that great blend of self directed, it's got some formal

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learning moments, it's got coaching, it's got social

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learning, you have a really, in the last couple of years, when

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we think about engaging our hybrid or hybrid learners, and

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the hybrid workforce, you know, the big themes that we saw from

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the Learning Trends survey that we did, just, you know, at the

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they're too busy to learn. The level of connection is dropping,

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you know, between between individuals at work, and we all

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have felt that, and it certainly creates a new dynamic for work.

Tom Moriarty:

And then you add to that that L&D has been stretched and

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really dissatisfied with converted offerings. You know,

Tom Moriarty:t, that in March and April of:Tom Moriarty:

you know, in order to survive, we've got to take everything

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like this was literally the the the wild activity that was

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happening around the globe in L&D. Everybody had to transform

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everything from from face to face, to virtual or to digital.

Tom Moriarty:

And there are some challenges there. Because the people who

Tom Moriarty:

are building face to face learning don't necessarily have

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the skills to be able to design for effective, engaging vILT.

Tom Moriarty:

And in fact, on the conference circuit, vILT probably had five

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to 10% of the total airtime at conferences like ATD and, and

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the Learning Guild, LSCon and DevLearn and other conferences.

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And so there wasn't even a lot of opportunity for most

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practitioners to even begin to learn how to do that well. And

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so suddenly, the mandate happened, we had to change on a

Tom Moriarty:

dime. But but really, kind of fast forward two years. And as

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you know, call a 24 month period went from 90% face to face

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you know, we we were at ATD and spoke on design thinking for

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learning experiences in Salt Lake in August of last year, we

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were just at LS Con two weeks ago, and people have made the

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leap. But here's where they are today. You know, really, they

Tom Moriarty:

know that if they could have waved a magic wand back then, is

Tom Moriarty:

what they did, what they actually would have done if they

Tom Moriarty:

could have done it right. And in almost all cases the answer's

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no. And so this is really an incredible time for being able

Tom Moriarty:

to sit back and think about what what does good look like and And

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what are we going to do to really engage our learners. And

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so much of that now is through doing really great persona work,

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so that we can reach learners wherever they are around the

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world, and be able to, to create a unified learning solution that

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meets the needs of a number of different personas that all have

Tom Moriarty:

unique needs. So kind of a long story. But really, it's been

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this extraordinary. Very, very fast moving, but now it's almost

Tom Moriarty:

like the organi- you know, as an industry, we are maturing and

Tom Moriarty:

moving in this direction. That's the way learning probably should

Tom Moriarty:

have been happening all along.

Ann Rollins:

Yeah, for sure. And there are definitely some

Ann Rollins:

delivery, to having 92% of your delivery be designed in a

Ann Rollins:

blended model. I mean, that's, that's an accomplishment that

Ann Rollins:

shouldn't be overshadowed there. That's, that's, that's a, that's

Ann Rollins:

a significant shift. It's, it's an impressive accomplishment.

Ann Rollins:

For you guys, as a business. From that story, what I took

Ann Rollins:

away, it sounded to me, you know, like, ultimately, the

Ann Rollins:

context of the world and the pandemic created a need for

Ann Rollins:

learning organizations, L&D groups all across the world, to

Ann Rollins:

flip on a dime immediately, and just adopt a new delivery

Ann Rollins:

approach and method, right, maybe maybe they were thinking

Ann Rollins:

about it, maybe it was out there. But it had to happen. And

Ann Rollins:

it had to happen overnight. And now I think what you're just

Ann Rollins:

saying, Ann, is that the groups across after having to transform

Ann Rollins:

flip on a dime in kind of almost adaptive survival mode, are now

Ann Rollins:

getting the opportunity to look at what they're doing in this

Ann Rollins:

new way. And try to define what what is good? How do we make

Ann Rollins:

this the best possible product for our audience, and meet them

Ann Rollins:

where they are? versus maybe having to physically come to

Ann Rollins:

where we are, which still at times has challenges? What are

Ann Rollins:

what are some of the challenges that the top challenges that you

Ann Rollins:

guys are seeing, that our groups are facing when trying to define

Ann Rollins:

that good? And and deliver it?

Ann Rollins:

challenges. And I'll pull this right from our learning survey.

Ann Rollins:

But before I do, I want to I want to go back to Blanchard

Ann Rollins:

story. It took every heart and soul in our business to be able

Ann Rollins:

to make that happen. Our president talked about the

Ann Rollins:

flywheel like you think about the flywheel and an engine,

Ann Rollins:

basically, exploding, right? Like you need a new flywheel.

Ann Rollins:

And it caused every process to have to change. And so think

Ann Rollins:

about this. This was our story. We're a learning and development

Ann Rollins:

company. But in businesses that are not learning and development

Ann Rollins:

companies, every process around how learning happens had to

Ann Rollins:

change every process around how they reach people, the processes

Ann Rollins:

for engaging people for communicating with people,

Ann Rollins:

everything had to change, your project management approaches

Ann Rollins:

have to change your technology strategy has to change. And so

Ann Rollins:

this extraordinary effort that really - and the toil, the toil

Ann Rollins:

for so many learning organizations, was something

Ann Rollins:

unlike will ever see. Now, what I'll say is that, you know, for

Ann Rollins:

those who are kind of the dreamers in industry, and have

Ann Rollins:

been kind of following along the conference circuit, and in

Ann Rollins:publications since:Ann Rollins:

of being able to build journeys that were deployed and supported

Ann Rollins:

by seamless, great technology. It was almost like this promise

Ann Rollins:

that was never going to come through. But But given the toil,

Ann Rollins:

there are some really great solutions out there now that

Ann Rollins:gs that were a dream in early:Ann Rollins:

for the way a lot of organizations learn. But some of

Ann Rollins:

the challenges let's go to the challenges that were that we've

Ann Rollins:

seen as a result, and that I'm when I'm talking to clients on

Ann Rollins:

the phone, these are the things that we have been hearing. You

Ann Rollins:

know, in our learning survey, 59% of respondents said they

Ann Rollins:

knew they needed more learner engagement. 59%. 54% said that

Ann Rollins:

their learners wanted more social interaction. 50% said

Ann Rollins:

they wanted more learning touchpoints over time. 46% said

Ann Rollins:

they wanted integration, the flow of work, it's too hard for

Ann Rollins:

me now to step outside of the flow of my work, to be able to

Ann Rollins:

go and do my learning. And then 38% said that they wanted more

Ann Rollins:

accountability to finish. And so when we think about these kinds

Ann Rollins:

of challenges as a result of the new virtual and digital designs,

Ann Rollins:

you know, what we're hearing is that learning practitioners and

Ann Rollins:

their learners, while learning that works better for them. And

Ann Rollins:

so, it's really about rethinking your content strategy from the

Ann Rollins:

learning professional perspective, that I need to

Ann Rollins:

teach my learners how to do X, Y, and Z. I need the people in

Ann Rollins:

our customer care department to be able to hit these key

Ann Rollins:

objectives, and what do they need to do that? What are the

Ann Rollins:

skills that they need? What are the competence, they need to be

Ann Rollins:

able to demonstrate that? And then from there, how do I build

Ann Rollins:

to a strategy, that is, there's going to allow them to get what

Ann Rollins:

they need when they need it. Because so much of the learning

Ann Rollins:

happens, where we preload it, by the time they need it, they

Ann Rollins:

don't even remember it, you know, how do we make tools that

Ann Rollins:

are ready, and easy for them to learn and easy for them to find

Ann Rollins:

and then use when they need them. And certainly, certainly

Ann Rollins:

being able to stretch learning out, so that it happens over

Ann Rollins:

time. When we're, when we're learning to perform a skill

Ann Rollins:

outside of work. You know, for some things that are a quick

Ann Rollins:

task, we might go, you know, online, and we might find a

Ann Rollins:

video to show us how to do it, you know, but but for me,

Ann Rollins:

example, you know, if you're one of the things that I want to do

Ann Rollins:

is I want to go into a sommelier course and become a sommelier.

Ann Rollins:

You know, that is a sophisticated skill set. And

Ann Rollins:

there are courses become a sommelier in just 14 days.

Ann Rollins:

That's not gonna work. These are skills that scaffold, there's

Ann Rollins:

knowledge that I have to scaffold, piece by piece, one on

Ann Rollins:

to the next. And it needs to happen over time. And there are

Ann Rollins:

so many skills in our lives that we need to be learning over

Ann Rollins:

time. And so that quick, it virtual converting eight hours

Ann Rollins:

of ILT into two, four hour sessions, it's just not working

Ann Rollins:

for people.

Tom Moriarty:

What I take away from that as well, right is,

Tom Moriarty:

it's like you said, You've got all- a learning professional,

Tom Moriarty:

and you've got the learners who are both saying the same thing:

Tom Moriarty:

we need to get, we need to, you know, get this information in

Tom Moriarty:

the right people's hands to accomplish business objectives

Tom Moriarty:

at the right times, right. I mean, it sounds like, from what

Tom Moriarty:

I'm hearing, you know, a lot of this is going to be really

Tom Moriarty:

relevant to how you think about content design, because you just

Tom Moriarty:

hit a, you know, huge takeaway for me is, you can't just take

Tom Moriarty:

your traditional instructor led course, it's built and designed

Tom Moriarty:

this way to be delivered over maybe a couple of sessions over

Tom Moriarty:

a couple of different hours over a couple of days. And flip that

Tom Moriarty:

to be virtual, shorten it up a little bit, because people's

Tom Moriarty:

attention spans change when they're in front of a computer

Tom Moriarty:

and not in front of the human. And think that you're okay.

Tom Moriarty:

Right, I think it really is, I would imagine going to hinge a

Tom Moriarty:

lot on how organizations think about the content they're

Tom Moriarty:

delivering and delivering it the right way at the right time.

Ann Rollins:

Yeah, it's true. It's true. I've done a number of

Ann Rollins:

sessions on the conference circuit that's really literally

Ann Rollins:

called reimagining your content strategy. And, you know, as we

Ann Rollins:

delivered our session at LS Con, about using design thinking to

Ann Rollins:

create high impact learning experiences, you know, part of

Ann Rollins:

that is when you're using design thinking, you're really starting

Ann Rollins:

with the who and the persona work, right. And then from

Ann Rollins:

there, you're looking at kind of what you're solving for. And

Ann Rollins:

then from there, you're going into ideation of what the

Ann Rollins:

solution could look like, solutions can look like a lot of

Ann Rollins:

things. But But so many of us have, you know, long form

Ann Rollins:

courses. Long Form vILTs. So when I say vILT, I'm talking

Ann Rollins:

about virtual instructor led training. Well, what about what

Ann Rollins:

about, you know, looking at, say, a series of vIl T's that

Ann Rollins:

might be a total of six hours three to our virtual sessions?

Ann Rollins:

And what about framing it and looking at each discrete

Ann Rollins:

activity that's happening in that virtual instructor led

Ann Rollins:

training, looking at the time it's taking, what is the

Ann Rollins:

outcome? And what is another way that you would be able to frame

Ann Rollins:

that for your learners. So so instead of it being me doing a

Ann Rollins:

six minute content introduction, why couldn't we have them maybe

Ann Rollins:

read an article or have a quick, a quick explainer video and then

Ann Rollins:

complete a self assessment? Check, check, done done. Right.

Ann Rollins:

And so that covers kind of that module? And so we actually have

Ann Rollins:

templates and tools, and we'll share those with listeners too.

Ann Rollins:

And it's a simple template, but it just walks you through taking

Ann Rollins:

something that was and how could you reimagine it in a way that

Ann Rollins:

is going to be more nimble, and more more user friendly for your

Ann Rollins:

learner's.

Tom Moriarty:

I love the takeaway of of that. The idea of

Tom Moriarty:

design thinking, right, looking first at the persona, who are we

Tom Moriarty:

trying to address? What are we trying to accomplish with this?

Tom Moriarty:

And then, okay, what's the best solution to accomplish that

Tom Moriarty:

outcome? And looking at what you have and mapping it to, you

Tom Moriarty:

know, maybe some other alternatives that you haven't

Tom Moriarty:

done Okay. Let me ask you a new question to kind of continue on

Tom Moriarty:

this topic, but less about challenges, what? What are a few

Tom Moriarty:

key things that, you know, learning teams should be

Tom Moriarty:

planning for, or actioning on right now to continue to evolve

Tom Moriarty:

to that picture of what good looks like?

Ann Rollins:

Yeah, you know, and I've said it a couple of times,

Ann Rollins:

but it can't be It can't be said too many times at this point,

Ann Rollins:

you know, to, to bring in a design thinking approach, and

Ann Rollins:

not like full capital D, capital T design thinking, but a lighter

Ann Rollins:

approach, and really focusing on the who first and staying with

Ann Rollins:

the who. So building out your personas, and we do this work

Ann Rollins:

with our clients, you know, really getting clear on who

Ann Rollins:

we're solving for, what do we want them doing thinking saying

Ann Rollins:

and feeling differently as a result, because when I do that,

Ann Rollins:

that becomes my true north on what I'm designing to. And so as

Ann Rollins:

we get into the design, and for our, for our learning journey,

Ann Rollins:

so at Blanchard, you, we have a number of different models. So

Ann Rollins:

we sell our off the shelf program. We have clients who

Ann Rollins:

love SL2 and they want to bring SL2 into the organization with

Ann Rollins:

other clients who say, you know, we have, we have a level, a

Ann Rollins:

senior level leader group that is actually our pool, or

Ann Rollins:

candidate pool for our next level vice president. And they

Ann Rollins:

are missing some fundamental skills that we want them

Ann Rollins:

prepared for that move. And so we're really looking for a

Ann Rollins:

journey that happens over time, that's going to scaffold skills

Ann Rollins:

for them. And so being able to create that, what are they going

Ann Rollins:

to do think, say, feel differently, as a result allows

Ann Rollins:

us when we're going into a process for a lengthy journey,

Ann Rollins:

and we're building out maybe some custom things is we can go

Ann Rollins:

back to that persona, and that that learner resonance exercise,

Ann Rollins:

and it's our true north, is this going to support this, you know,

Ann Rollins:

doing saying thinking feeling differently? And if not, maybe

Ann Rollins:

it's not required? Maybe it's a nice to have, but not a need to

Ann Rollins:

have. And so that really helps us with the content approach.

Ann Rollins:

But also, when we use that approach, and we've got our

Ann Rollins:

persona defined, then we can really start looking at like,

Ann Rollins:

how are we going to build out a journey framework for these

Ann Rollins:

learners, something that is going to, you know, provide

Ann Rollins:

multiple touch points, it's gonna provide a blended journey

Ann Rollins:

that allows learners to have a lot more control over their

Ann Rollins:

experience. Because if I've got 10 or 15 minutes, I can pop into

Ann Rollins:

my work and pop back out. And that's, you know, that's another

Ann Rollins:

really great tool that I'll share is we've got, we've got

Ann Rollins:

templates for building personas, and the journey framework model.

Ann Rollins:

And these are things that help you decide how are you going to

Ann Rollins:

measure this solution? What are the push and pull elements? How

Ann Rollins:

are we going to push content to our people? How are we going to

Ann Rollins:

pull them back? And bring them back? And what does that look

Ann Rollins:

like? Where are opportunities for social learning using?

Ann Rollins:

Here's what we have in the ecosystem today? You know, so

Ann Rollins:

we've got a got a lovely client who is deploying a long

Ann Rollins:

journey... 18 actually, with the the Capstone, it's 20 weeks long

Ann Rollins:

on the Degreed platform. And we're using discussions to tie

Ann Rollins:

back everything they're learning to their fundamental frontline

Ann Rollins:

leader DEI competencies. And so all of those discussions happen

Ann Rollins:

on Microsoft Teams. So you don't have to have a sophisticated

Ann Rollins:

platform that does it all. It's about getting really creative

Ann Rollins:

about the tools you do have, and finding ways to to use them in

Ann Rollins:

meaningful ways that support the learning goals.

Tom Moriarty:

I love that I think, you know, the the couple

Tom Moriarty:

of notes, I was jotting down as you were because you were

Tom Moriarty:

speaking, I think that that specific example is that you

Tom Moriarty:

shared as one of them is a really good one that you have a

Tom Moriarty:

very clear persona to senior manager group that is the

Tom Moriarty:

candidate pool to become a VP. Well, you need to be a VP in

Tom Moriarty:

that organization is different than when what you need to be a

Tom Moriarty:

senior manager. Okay, that's what I need to get their

Tom Moriarty:

competencies to, I've got something to map to, I know

Tom Moriarty:

there's a certain time horizon. Now how do we build the right

Tom Moriarty:

approach and the right framework, facilitating that

Tom Moriarty:

that is really such a nice TrueNorth? Because it can bring

Tom Moriarty:

you back each time and saying, Hey, is this going to help us

Tom Moriarty:

accomplish that goal? Okay, now, it makes sense, you know, to,

Tom Moriarty:

you know, apply that journey, or apply this tool to that journey.

Tom Moriarty:

Right. And I think that's a that's a really, I believe,

Tom Moriarty:

valuable takeaway that our audience can think about and

Tom Moriarty:

even just using that example, because I think that's one that

Tom Moriarty:

could be relatable to most people in their own

Tom Moriarty:

organization, think about what that would be like in your

Tom Moriarty:

organization. Okay, well now apply that to your same logic to

Tom Moriarty:

your new persona.

Ann Rollins:

Right. You know, one of the other things too, is

Ann Rollins:

that we'll have clients that will say these are our

Ann Rollins:

management competencies, and we need a journey built to our

Ann Rollins:

management competencies and the competencies are really

Ann Rollins:

important, because organizationally, there are

Ann Rollins:

there are TrueNorth these are the these are the expected

Ann Rollins:

competencies from a more - typically a more kind of a

Ann Rollins:

research based perspective. But we want to know what does that

Ann Rollins:

look like in practice? And in real life? What does it- How

Ann Rollins:

does that- how does it show up when they have that? Because

Ann Rollins:

that helps us to really suss out? What are the what are the

Ann Rollins:

kinds of activities that we want them doing? What are the kinds

Ann Rollins:

of conversations we want them having with their leaders,

Ann Rollins:

because it's so important that, you know, when we're talking

Ann Rollins:

about engaging these, these learners who are who are still

Ann Rollins:

scattered, you know, to be able to create organic opportunities,

Ann Rollins:

where they're discussing with people, where they're having

Ann Rollins:

conversations with their leader, and particularly, I mean, are

Ann Rollins:

obviously ours is the leader context, I worked for Blanchard,

Ann Rollins:

but I came from before I was at Blanchard shortly before the

Ann Rollins:

pandemic started, I came from a custom content company. And so

Ann Rollins:

we were building training on how to build nuclear subs and

Ann Rollins:

customer service. And, you know, medical, pharmaceutical type

Ann Rollins:

sales training, so any kind of training, but when I talk about

Ann Rollins:

it, the leader context because that's my world. But

Ann Rollins:

opportunities for conversations to happen between the people who

Ann Rollins:

are learning and the people who lead them, and getting the

Ann Rollins:

opportunity for them to learn from the experience of their

Ann Rollins:

leader, I'll give you a simple example. But and this could be

Ann Rollins:

rendered, whether it's customer service training, or its

Ann Rollins:

technical skills training. But imagine at the end of, of a live

Ann Rollins:

session, you know, some of that kind of, I caught that

Ann Rollins:

interstitial work that connective tissue, you know,

Ann Rollins:

they're gonna, they're gonna have a one on one with their

Ann Rollins:

leader after every live session. And using an example, for one

Ann Rollins:

that has nine modules of content. So nine live sessions

Ann Rollins:

over time, we give them two prompts to talk about with their

Ann Rollins:

leader. Now, of course, their leader has not gone through this

Ann Rollins:

training. So they've not had the benefit of understanding the

Ann Rollins:

model and the skills. But what does that give to me, it gives

Ann Rollins:

me an opportunity to be able to hear about something real,

Ann Rollins:

that's happening, for instance, share with me a time when you

Ann Rollins:

were not as empathetic as you needed to be with one of your

Ann Rollins:

employees, and what was the impact of that. And me, I've

Ann Rollins:

just gone through a module on awareness and empathy. And, and

Ann Rollins:

I'm able to hear the story, a real story about about perhaps

Ann Rollins:

damaged reputation or broken trust. And I'm able to bounce

Ann Rollins:

that story, that real story off of what I just learned and go,

Ann Rollins:

that's a cautionary tale, I don't want to be I, you know, I

Ann Rollins:

want to be the better leader. And so given the opportunities

Ann Rollins:

for that organic connection between your learners, and the

Ann Rollins:

people who lead them, or people who work beside them, someone

Ann Rollins:

more senior than them, that's a really easy thing to infuse. And

Ann Rollins:

it's extraordinarily valuable, especially in today's world,

Tom Moriarty:

That's a great nugget, I think that, you know,

Tom Moriarty:

the idea of just infusing that one on one and be able to, you

Tom Moriarty:

know, take that away as part of a tool to add into learning

Tom Moriarty:

journey. I love that, that it's, that's great. You know, could

Tom Moriarty:

you we've talked a lot about using design thinking, you know,

Tom Moriarty:

reworking this, this journey, and how to approach, you know,

Tom Moriarty:

changing your content, changing your delivery methods, really at

Tom Moriarty:

a high level throughout all of this. Right. And I think that

Tom Moriarty:

that's something that most learning organizations are

Tom Moriarty:

realizing, especially over the context of the last 24 months,

Tom Moriarty:

is hugely important. How can you start, right, I think that that

Tom Moriarty:

was, that's one really good takeaway of, you know, add those

Tom Moriarty:

one on one conversations as part of your modules. But what are

Tom Moriarty:

some other, you know, key tactical takeaways our audience

Tom Moriarty:

can have leaving this conversation to help, you know,

Tom Moriarty:

rethink, if you will, how, how you're delivering your content,

Tom Moriarty:

and how you're reaching your audience better.

Ann Rollins:

One aspect that we didn't talk about yet, which is

Ann Rollins:

a really big deal for us, is measurements, and so many, so

Ann Rollins:

many learning organizations are still kind of in infancy in

Ann Rollins:

terms of measurement. So measuring, measuring your, your,

Ann Rollins:

your confidence, and your readiness to apply new skills.

Ann Rollins:

And where are you today post learning where were you before

Ann Rollins:

learning? And, you know, we don't do we don't do a pre

Ann Rollins:

assess at Blanchard because people always over the state

Ann Rollins:

their skills. You know, they'll say, Oh, I'm great at setting

Ann Rollins:

goals. And then they have the goal setting module. And I'm

Ann Rollins:

like, Oh, I actually, that's not how I did it. And how I did it

Ann Rollins:

was not as great as I thought I was. And so, so infusing

Ann Rollins:

measurement into everything that you're doing so that you can see

Ann Rollins:

what's working quickly and make modifications to it. And so just

Ann Rollins:

being able to ask, you know, what is your confidence and your

Ann Rollins:

readiness to apply XYZ skill in your work, and that's right

Ann Rollins:

after they complete their learning. And then 60 days

Ann Rollins:

later, you go out and you post them again, and you let them

Ann Rollins:

know this is really important for you to be part of this,

Ann Rollins:

because if if we're not hitting the mark, this gives us the

Ann Rollins:

evidence that we need to be able to shift to what we're doing.

Ann Rollins:

And so that's a really important piece that I think warrants some

Ann Rollins:

conversation. And measurement, a lot of folks are nervous because

Ann Rollins:

it they feel like it's cumbersome, or it's difficult.

Ann Rollins:

You know, you can do in a lot of ways we use teams polls in live

Ann Rollins:

team sessions, because we can save them and we can pull, we

Ann Rollins:

can export the data and save it over time, you could use MS

Ann Rollins:

forms to be able to grab that. And for a lot of it for

Ann Rollins:

sessions, where we're doing digital learning that really

Ann Rollins:

nice blend digital learning with live component, we're actually

Ann Rollins:

doing the the measurement surveys, we're actually doing it

Ann Rollins:

as part of the live session, like in the last four minutes.

Ann Rollins:

So so please do it. That way we can make that that case of how

Ann Rollins:

important it is. And really where we're hitting the mark,

Ann Rollins:

and where we should change things for the next group going

Ann Rollins:

through. And then of course, that 60 Day follow up, they

Ann Rollins:

understand, you know, this becomes really important

Ann Rollins:

because, you know, we want to see your competence, your

Ann Rollins:

competence grow. But of course, that means I've got to have a

Ann Rollins:

sustainment strategy, right, I've got to be able to have

Ann Rollins:

resources for them to go back to, which becomes another parts

Ann Rollins:

of the picture. So when you're thinking about it, you no

Ann Rollins:

question at all, it's not just the design, it's your

Ann Rollins:

stakeholder involvement, getting your executive stakeholders

Ann Rollins:

sponsors involved early, it's keeping your leaders of

Ann Rollins:

participants appraised and what's happening so that they

Ann Rollins:

can hold learners accountable for behavior change. It's about

Ann Rollins:

the measurement piece, you know, now and, and at some point in

Ann Rollins:

the future. So it's the it's the whole thing, the elegant design,

Ann Rollins:

of course, and the sustainment strategy, we call, we actually

Ann Rollins:

call that the five critical success factors. At Blanchard we

Ann Rollins:

have white paper on, I'll put the link so that we can share

Ann Rollins:

that with folks. But when we're thinking about those kinds of

Ann Rollins:

things early, and we're when we're especially when we're

Ann Rollins:

going through a rethink on, you know, if we could redo this,

Ann Rollins:

what would we do with it? And when we factor those five

Ann Rollins:

critical success factors in if money, you know, you're just

Ann Rollins:

you're gonna hit the mark, with a solution that works that you

Ann Rollins:

can prove. And that's really what we're trying to get.

Tom Moriarty:

Yeah, that's great. I think those are very

Tom Moriarty:

clear and simple and actionable takeaways. I love the idea of

Tom Moriarty:

measurement. I think that's you train the confidence, measuring

Tom Moriarty:

competence and readiness to apply the skills and doing it

Tom Moriarty:

not only then right at the right at the point of the end of that

Tom Moriarty:

moment in time, but also 60 days later, I think it's great. And

Tom Moriarty:

that's an interesting takeaway on the avoiding pre session

Tom Moriarty:

assessments, because because they tend to get overstated. So

Tom Moriarty:

I think that's awesome, but not surprising. Yeah. Nothing wrong

Tom Moriarty:

with someone being confident, right?

Ann Rollins:

That's right. But don't skew my data.

Tom Moriarty:

Exactly. Oh, that's, that's a good takeaway

Tom Moriarty:

for the audience. I think a lot of people I wouldn't have I

Tom Moriarty:

personally wouldn't have thought of that in the past. I think

Tom Moriarty:

that that's, that's great. I love you know, I said this

Tom Moriarty:

earlier, but I really love your focus, especially in those five

Tom Moriarty:

critical success factors of making sure the stakeholders are

Tom Moriarty:

involved. And also the leadership involvement in the

Tom Moriarty:

actual coursework or delivery itself, right, those follow up

Tom Moriarty:

one on ones, those discussions, those stories, that an employee

Tom Moriarty:

can take away with their leader on how applying a skill or a

Tom Moriarty:

real life situation had an impact. I mean, you know, my,

Tom Moriarty:

it's my personal belief that those stories are really the

Tom Moriarty:

things that actually can ultimately submit a lesson in

Tom Moriarty:

practice. So I love that takeaway. And hopefully, that's

Tom Moriarty:

something that the audience can really start to apply to their

Tom Moriarty:

their learning journeys. And I think that's really valuable.

Tom Moriarty:

What else any other sort of closing thoughts and you think

Tom Moriarty:

that we need to cover that the audience can get value out

Ann Rollins:

You know, a lot of them will say, I don't know what

Ann Rollins:

all the options are. So if I'm taking four hours of vILT, and

Ann Rollins:

I've got to do something with it, and my my analogy that I

Ann Rollins:

use, like imagine if you go to like a picnic, and you get your

Ann Rollins:

picnic basket and all your stuffs in there, and you lay

Ann Rollins:

down on the blanket, I'm going to grab that picnic, black, that

Ann Rollins:

picnic blanket, and I'm going to grab it, I'm going to shake it.

Ann Rollins:

And I'm just going to grab the things that I want that are

Ann Rollins:

flying from what was all together in a nice, neat

Ann Rollins:

package. And I'm going to retell a new story with just the things

Ann Rollins:

that I want from it. And so the question becomes, what, what are

Ann Rollins:

my options for doing something different? Let's say I've got a

Ann Rollins:

group activity that happens in a virtual classroom, and it lasts

Ann Rollins:

about 15 minutes, what are my options to do something

Ann Rollins:

different with that experience? And so I've got an entire list

Ann Rollins:

of options of things just it's a massive brain Storm of all the

Ann Rollins:

really great stuff that you could be thinking about to do

Ann Rollins:

something different. And so I think kind of opening our minds

Ann Rollins:

to, it doesn't have to be click Next to continue. It doesn't

Ann Rollins:

have to be an article. It doesn't have to be alive

Ann Rollins:

PowerPoint presentation with a facilitator talking to it, it

Ann Rollins:

could look like so many different things. And so I think

Ann Rollins:

that, that that's another really important part of the puzzle.

Tom Moriarty:

That's great. I really appreciate all the

Tom Moriarty:

resources that you're, you're going to be sharing over to us

Tom Moriarty:

and we'll include all those all those links in our show notes so

Tom Moriarty:

that the audience can go go have themselves lots of homework and

Tom Moriarty:

lots of resources to continue to improve the learning journeys

Tom Moriarty:

that are happening within their organizations. And this has been

Tom Moriarty:

fantastic if the audience wants to hear more from you and learn

Tom Moriarty:

more about what you're doing. What's where's the where can

Tom Moriarty:

they find you?

Ann Rollins:

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. Ann Renee Rollins. The

Ann Rollins:

only Ann Renee Rollins, and I have red hair, so you won't miss

Ann Rollins:

me. So there and on Twitter, AnniBabyCan, and I think those

Ann Rollins:

are the two kind of places where I tend to be reasonably active.

Ann Rollins:

If you attend conferences, I'm I'm always there. But like my

Ann Rollins:

closing, my closing thought and inspiration for all of you is

Ann Rollins:

like L&D, this is our moment. This is our moment to shine. And

Ann Rollins:

for all of the pulling and cajoling of all the years of

Ann Rollins:

trying to innovate, and saying, no one wants to innovate.

Ann Rollins:

Suddenly, everyone had to innovate at warp speed. And this

Ann Rollins:

is work where we absolutely have the opportunity to be the

Ann Rollins:

champions. And I, I firmly believe that and it has been a

Ann Rollins:

joy and an honor to help and share, share what's working. I

Ann Rollins:

mean, we've made mistakes along the way, don't get me wrong, but

Ann Rollins:

to share what's working because we have all of these

Ann Rollins:

opportunities right in front of us, for us to do different and

Ann Rollins:

great things for our organizations, and for our

Ann Rollins:

employees too.

Tom Moriarty:

Thanks, Ann. I love that closing thought it's

Tom Moriarty:

inspiring. And I think it is definitely an inspiring time to

Tom Moriarty:

be in the world of learning and development, both for you and

Tom Moriarty:

for the teams given the context. So thank you so much for your

Tom Moriarty:

time today. We really appreciate it. Take care. Thank you.

Ann Rollins:

Take care, everyone.

Tom Moriarty:

Thank you for joining us for our debut episode

Tom Moriarty:

of The Secret Society of Success: Lessons and Inspiration

Tom Moriarty:

from Corporate Learning & Development. We're diving into

Tom Moriarty:

hybrid learning with four more episodes releasing June 1. The

Tom Moriarty:

Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo the better way

Tom Moriarty:

to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk of the Trade for

Tom Moriarty:

tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders. Visit