March 2020. Mary Glowacka has spent nine months preparing a multiyear employee wellness program hinging on in-person training. And then the pandemic hits. This is the story of what happened next.
Transcript
Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of
Tom Moriarty:Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&D
Tom Moriarty:changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporate
Tom Moriarty:environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that from
Tom Moriarty:their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to make
Tom Moriarty:yourself, your people and your organization's more successful.
Tom Moriarty:In this first season, we're exploring the topic of hybrid
learning:what that means a different organizations, why it
learning:is increasingly important, and how l&d leaders can invest in
learning:the right resources to best leverage it. Today, we want to
learning:talk about how switching to hybrid learning impacts the
learning:members of the L&D team, and how L&D leaders can successfully
learning:manage that transition. To make better light of this
learning:conversation, we've invited Mary Glowacka of Preply to share a
learning:specific story from the winter of 2020. Welcome, Mary. How are
learning:you today?
Mary Glowacka:Hi, Tom. I'm great. Thank you. How are you?
Tom Moriarty:I'm fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us
Tom Moriarty:really appreciate it. So listen, before we jump into your 2020...
Tom Moriarty:I'll call it an inspiration story...can you give us a quick
Tom Moriarty:overview of your career in HR and L&D?
Mary Glowacka:Yes, absolutely. I'm really happy to be here.
Mary Glowacka:Thanks for having me. And thanks to everyone who's joining to
Mary Glowacka:listening. Yes, my entry point to the whole world of HR was
Mary Glowacka:through training. I started or quite young in that domain with
Mary Glowacka:no prior experience. I studied linguistics, in fact, so quite
Mary Glowacka:far fetched from what I ended up doing professionally. And I just
Mary Glowacka:fell in love with the whole topic of people development and
Mary Glowacka:helping organizations grow and become better and better over
Mary Glowacka:time through its people. I worked predominantly in the
Mary Glowacka:corporate world at Nestle, EY, Bank of America, where I held
Mary Glowacka:global roles predominantly focused on organizational
Mary Glowacka:development, leadership development, coaching, learning
Mary Glowacka:and development strategies, learning technologies, and
Mary Glowacka:performance enablement, from strategy to then translating
Mary Glowacka:those strategies into execution plans and driving big
Mary Glowacka:transformational changes for these organizations. And now I
Mary Glowacka:am in the fantastic world of scale ups at Preply in the world
Mary Glowacka:of language learning. And I head up the center of people
Mary Glowacka:excellence, again, focusing on organizational development
Mary Glowacka:across the whole company with my team.
Tom Moriarty:That is awesome, very impressive background,
Tom Moriarty:Mary, I'm excited to get the opportunity. I know you and I
Tom Moriarty:had spoke a little bit about that the story you're gonna
Tom Moriarty:share from, from your time at Bank of America. And I think
Tom Moriarty:it's an incredible one. So I know that the vast experience
Tom Moriarty:you've got leading teams and departments should definitely
Tom Moriarty:give our listeners awesome takeaways from our conversation
Tom Moriarty:today. So excited to, to dig into it. Before we start the
Tom Moriarty:story, which is the really exciting part, what we're trying
Tom Moriarty:to do is just ask our guests to begin the conversation defining
Tom Moriarty:a couple of key terms, so that the context of how we use them
Tom Moriarty:throughout the discussion is clear from your perspective,
Tom Moriarty:right. So to start, Mary, how do you define hybrid learning?
Mary Glowacka:Sure, I don't necessarily deem the term hybrid
Mary Glowacka:learning anything particularly new in the world of learning and
Mary Glowacka:development. I pretty much understand that there's a
Mary Glowacka:blended learning approach, where you seek the best method of
Mary Glowacka:training or delivering learning to your people to meet their at
Mary Glowacka:their point of need, and you're finding the best way of
Mary Glowacka:conveying that that learning initiative, let's put it that
Mary Glowacka:way. So it's, it's a combination of different types of approaches
Mary Glowacka:that blend into one learning experience, and then hybrid,
Mary Glowacka:that particular word and there is, you know, in the context of
Mary Glowacka:enabling that anytime, anywhere, and meeting people where they
Mary Glowacka:are and not necessarily forcing them to travel to sit in a
Mary Glowacka:classroom, for lack of a for lack of a better example.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, I think that's great. It that's, you
Tom Moriarty:know, it's funny, as we've been going through this season, you
Tom Moriarty:know, we continue to hear that theme, right? This is not a new
Tom Moriarty:term, it is just a topic that's become increasingly relevant in
Tom Moriarty:the context of what the, you know, the global events in the
Tom Moriarty:last in the last 48 months. So I don't want to wait any further.
Tom Moriarty:Let's set the stage. It's March 2020. Where are you and what are
Tom Moriarty:you working on?
Mary Glowacka:Sounds very ominous. like Game of Thrones a
Mary Glowacka:little bit, right? Yes, it's it's March 2020. For the past
Mary Glowacka:six to eight months. I had been leading a global project at the
Mary Glowacka:Bank-
Tom Moriarty:and Bank of America correct?
Mary Glowacka:And that's Bank of America. It's a global
Mary Glowacka:project, focusing around providing people with tools and
Mary Glowacka:practical tactics and strategies to support themselves and others
Mary Glowacka:in their teams as well as in their families from an emotional
Mary Glowacka:perspective. So very much focused on topics like
Mary Glowacka:resilience, and to health and wellness and so on. And we
Mary Glowacka:started designing this program together with the Thrive Global,
Mary Glowacka:the company set up by Arianna Huffington, when we started
Mary Glowacka:designing this program, in the year before, and at that stage
Mary Glowacka:in March, at the beginning of March, we are a few days before
Mary Glowacka:launching this program globally. Originally, the strategy was
Mary Glowacka:that the program was designed, first of all, with five core
Mary Glowacka:modules, again, a blended experience. But the prerequisite
Mary Glowacka:module, the first one was a classroom environment
Mary Glowacka:experience. So that's in terms of the program's components. In
Mary Glowacka:terms of the broader strategy, we were targeting managers...
Mary Glowacka:manager population across the bank with the view that the
Mary Glowacka:managers cascade the key messages to their team. And the
Mary Glowacka:location strategy was such that we mapped out the key hubs
Mary Glowacka:across the world. And that's where we were going to conduct
Mary Glowacka:these prerequisite sessions with the view, of course, that we
Mary Glowacka:selected the hubs where majority of the manager population was
Mary Glowacka:already present, right, with an assumption that there will be an
Mary Glowacka:element of, of course, many people having to travel.
Tom Moriarty:And, and just to continue to level set a little
Tom Moriarty:bit about the story, because I know you and I have talked about
Tom Moriarty:it quite a bit... This is a pretty visible program at the
Tom Moriarty:bank, was it not? I think you had some pretty high level
Tom Moriarty:sponsorship for this program.
Mary Glowacka:Yes, absolutely. It was a very high profile
Mary Glowacka:program. It was sponsored by the CEO of the bank himself. So yes,
Mary Glowacka:very, very important program, which also, you know, shows you
Mary Glowacka:how important the topics of wellness and employee, you know,
Mary Glowacka:mental well being as well have already important to that
Mary Glowacka:organization.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah.
Mary Glowacka:Because as I said, we started designing it
Mary Glowacka:around and building the whole strategy around May 2019.
Mary Glowacka:Actually, we've got to remember, it's an organization of over
Mary Glowacka:200,000 people. And there was also a big element of
Mary Glowacka:accrediting our facilitators. So we identified a number of people
Mary Glowacka:from the business who would become facilitators and as part
Mary Glowacka:of the partnership with with our vendor, they needed to go
Mary Glowacka:through a specialist accreditation program because
Mary Glowacka:the the program that we built was very, very heavily based on
Mary Glowacka:the latest science and research around mental well being around
Mary Glowacka:things like you know how lack of sleep affects you. And things
Mary Glowacka:like that. So there was almost a four month Train the Trainer
Mary Glowacka:program for our facilitators. And once they got accredited,
Mary Glowacka:they were ready to they were ready to run. And going back to,
Mary Glowacka:to our timeline. It's March beginning of March 2020. And
Mary Glowacka:we're a few days from launching and then things are starting
Mary Glowacka:starting to, to unravel.
Tom Moriarty:Okay, so, so let me let me just recap, a level
Tom Moriarty:set, and then you can continue down sort of the path of the
Tom Moriarty:story, right, so. So for the audience, I mean, you've been
Tom Moriarty:leading this project, to deliver a co sponsored learning
Tom Moriarty:initiative, that you're collaborating with an outside
Tom Moriarty:vendor on, right? You're you've got a group of facilitators
Tom Moriarty:across the globe, that are SMEs that are accredited that you
Tom Moriarty:have to go, who are, I would imagine very excited, and
Tom Moriarty:enthused about the honor of being a facilitator for part of
Tom Moriarty:a program that's ultimately sponsored by the CEO of the
Tom Moriarty:organization. Right. And, and you train them, you train them
Tom Moriarty:on how to facilitate in the context that you're planning,
Tom Moriarty:which is an in person environment, right. So it's
Tom Moriarty:March 2020, everything everyone knows what happened in March
Tom Moriarty:2020. So what do you what do you do?
Mary Glowacka:I will never forget that day. I was still at
Mary Glowacka:the office. It was about eight in the evening. I think it was a
Mary Glowacka:Thursday or a Friday. And our facilitators...our facilitators
Mary Glowacka:were supposed to travel from the US for the kickoff, the week
Mary Glowacka:after, and I get a call that sadly, the situation in the US
Mary Glowacka:with the pandemic is such that no one is allowed to travel
Mary Glowacka:anymore. So look, what do you do? You take a breath, first of
Mary Glowacka:all, or to or to if you need to, maybe you need a glass of water,
Mary Glowacka:maybe a glass of wine, whatever helps you in the moment.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah.
Mary Glowacka:And I think first thing you do is you accept the
Mary Glowacka:reality, because these are factors that are completely
Mary Glowacka:outside of your control. So you start thinking about a way
Mary Glowacka:forward and... Well, first thing we knew was that we didn't know
Mary Glowacka:what the situation was really going to look like with the
Mary Glowacka:pandemic. Let's remember, it was the first really couple of
Mary Glowacka:weeks, especially in the UK, where I was based at the time.
Mary Glowacka:And very much people were in denial. I remember exactly the
Mary Glowacka:comments, especially when we started working from home,
Mary Glowacka:people were saying goodbyes in the office and say, "Okay, see
Mary Glowacka:you in the next see you in a couple of weeks." And we never
Mary Glowacka:went back to the office, you know, so yeah, so that was the
Mary Glowacka:mindset at the time. And first of all, we needed to work
Mary Glowacka:through with that mindset, because there was an element of,
Mary Glowacka:okay, we'll just postpone for a couple of weeks. And that was
Mary Glowacka:one first big hurdle to start conversations around. Okay, that
Mary Glowacka:is one option that we will be able to resume in a couple of
Mary Glowacka:weeks. But really, we are making assumptions about things here
Mary Glowacka:that are only just starting, and they're completely outside of
Mary Glowacka:our control as an organization. So very, very quickly, we we
Mary Glowacka:made a very, I believe, at the time very responsible decision.
Mary Glowacka:And we assume that we don't know what's going to happen. And
Mary Glowacka:therefore we didn't want to compromise the program, because
Mary Glowacka:there was a very, very big strategic importance to our
Mary Glowacka:leadership and in the bank. So what do you do? So first of all,
Mary Glowacka:you need to go back to strategy and revisit it. And the face
Mary Glowacka:assumption was, well, we need to convert this program to be 100%
Mary Glowacka:virtual. So eliminate the aspect of travel and in person
Mary Glowacka:interactions. So that was an immediate thing that we knew and
Mary Glowacka:that we agreed on. And that was our first assumption. And but
Mary Glowacka:then, of course, there was an element of okay, well, we now
Mary Glowacka:need to revisit some of the content and validate whether any
Mary Glowacka:changes to the content need to be made in order for the content
Mary Glowacka:to lend itself for virtual delivery, as opposed to
Mary Glowacka:classroom delivery. And we know right, that if you've planned a
Mary Glowacka:group exercise in classroom, you can also achieve this on WebEx
Mary Glowacka:or zoom, right, you can create a breakout room. But perhaps you
Mary Glowacka:need to give people different instructions, right. So there is
Mary Glowacka:always some element of content to redesigned. It can be 10%, it
Mary Glowacka:can be 50%. But there is always that element. I think one other
Mary Glowacka:important thing that I should add at this time is the
Mary Glowacka:facilitators who went through the train the trainer program
Mary Glowacka:and got accredited, you know, fantastic professionals, but not
Mary Glowacka:professional facilitators, not professional facilitators. So
Mary Glowacka:reason why I'm sharing this as well is because that was one of
Mary Glowacka:the biggest elements of the complete change in strategy that
Mary Glowacka:we had to work through. Because I think you made that comment
Mary Glowacka:earlier, Tom, actually, absolutely. Our facilitators
Mary Glowacka:were so excited. They understood the weight and the importance
Mary Glowacka:and the prominence of this project. The Train the Trainer
Mary Glowacka:program for four months that they went through was really
Mary Glowacka:phenomenal. The Thrive Global team did such a great job with
Mary Glowacka:them. And it was, you know, it was it was world class, Train
Mary Glowacka:the Trainer program. And really, they were so emotionally
Mary Glowacka:attached to this program, our facilitators, I will never
Mary Glowacka:forget what their reaction was in the first couple of weeks.
Tom Moriarty:What was it? How did they react?
Mary Glowacka:Well, first, it was first it was disbelief.
Mary Glowacka:Right? And first from the facilitators, what we heard,
Mary Glowacka:okay, let's just wait a couple of weeks, you know, let's just
Mary Glowacka:wait a couple of weeks and postpone the launch and we'll do
Mary Glowacka:it, you know, even if a month later yeah. Then when of course
Mary Glowacka:the decision was made to change the strategy in terms of how
Mary Glowacka:this program is delivered. Everyone was very professional,
Mary Glowacka:but there was an element of disappointment, you know, and I
Mary Glowacka:can understand, you know, they put their heart and soul into it
Mary Glowacka:on top of their day to day jobs as well and they were selected
Mary Glowacka:for a reason for this program to be our facilitators. So I can
Mary Glowacka:completely understand. People put a lot of work and passion
Mary Glowacka:into it, and suddenly we're saying, it is going to
Mary Glowacka:completely change. And then there was an other element, I
Mary Glowacka:believe of fear. Facilitation in classroom is very different to
Mary Glowacka:facilitate to virtual facilitation, some skills that
Mary Glowacka:you need, or are common, but they, but there are some skills
Mary Glowacka:that are different. So for them, it was also that fear of, first
Mary Glowacka:of all, I don't know how to do it virtually. So it's so that
Mary Glowacka:it's engaging and effective to is it really going to be a good
Mary Glowacka:experience? If I'm not with the people in the room? Right, you
Mary Glowacka:know, and again, we know, you know, learning and development
Mary Glowacka:professionals know that you can create a great discussion, a
Mary Glowacka:great session virtually. But I could also I could understand
Mary Glowacka:their perspective, they just couldn't imagine how it would
Mary Glowacka:work, how it would be an impactful program when they
Mary Glowacka:deliver everything over WebEx, because we were using WebEx at
Mary Glowacka:the time, right?
Tom Moriarty:I mean, I'd imagine from their perspective,
Tom Moriarty:they're taking a lot of pride, they put a lot of effort in,
Tom Moriarty:Well, my approach in situations like that, typically, is you
Tom Moriarty:right. And I think that there's a little bit of deep down in
Tom Moriarty:there, especially if you haven't facilitated over zoom, you know,
Tom Moriarty:there's probably a little bit of human ego, which everyone has in
Tom Moriarty:there that says, you know, like, I need to help be in the room
Tom Moriarty:and, you know, make eye contact and see and have an awareness
Tom Moriarty:and try to, you know, build on some of those facilitation
Tom Moriarty:skills that I took the time to learn to create an effective
Tom Moriarty:environment, because I know how important this is for the
Tom Moriarty:organization and how high profile it is. How do you help
Tom Moriarty:them through that? How do you help, you know, get the
Tom Moriarty:facilitators from a place of fear and concern about their
Tom Moriarty:ability to effectively deliver the content over zoom? You know,
Tom Moriarty:how do you had to help them cross that hump?
Tom Moriarty:need to first of all apply a lot of patience and compassion
Tom Moriarty:towards people. And with that mindset, take next steps. So
Tom Moriarty:first of all, you know, I played a role in helping them visualize
Tom Moriarty:what you know, the redesigned experience could look like. So
Tom Moriarty:really talk to people about specifics how it can
Tom Moriarty:specifically work and share your own experience with them, show
Tom Moriarty:them, tell them, engage them, yes, show them some past
Tom Moriarty:examples to again, because otherwise, people build stories
Tom Moriarty:in their heads, you know, they conceptualize and they go off on
Tom Moriarty:a tangent, because they don't have that particular experience.
Tom Moriarty:So they're just making up things in their head basically.
Tom Moriarty:Right, as we all do.
Mary Glowacka:So to mitigate some of that fear, I believe,
Mary Glowacka:show them past examples, right? Engage them in that way. And
Mary Glowacka:then also, again, for me, it's, it's important that, you know,
Mary Glowacka:you engage these key stakeholders in co-creating the
Mary Glowacka:plan and the strategy with you for that new program. So they
Mary Glowacka:were part of building the strategy, I thought it was
Mary Glowacka:important that they have a voice. Because they ultimately
Mary Glowacka:are accountable for delivering the content, so co-creating and
Mary Glowacka:engaging them in that way. And the other thing was that the we
Mary Glowacka:put them through another train the trainer program. So that was
Mary Glowacka:another element of reassurance that look, you already have the
Mary Glowacka:subject matter knowledge, because that was also part of
Mary Glowacka:their fear, then, are we going to have to repeat four months of
Mary Glowacka:this program, our accreditation program, and absolutely not,
Mary Glowacka:because you already have the subject matter knowledge, right,
Mary Glowacka:you already know the information that you need to relate to your
Mary Glowacka:audiences, it will be a different way in which you will
Mary Glowacka:do it. So we will focus, we focus on the the additional
Mary Glowacka:Train the Trainer purely on those remote facilitation
Mary Glowacka:skills. So what that meant is, again, we reassured them that
Mary Glowacka:hey, you know, more than you feel or think you do at this
Mary Glowacka:point in time, and we're not gonna put you through the paces.
Mary Glowacka:Again, we will focus on your virtual facilitation skills.
Tom Moriarty:Obviously, I think there's a lot of facilitators
Tom Moriarty:out there in our audience, listening, you know, they've
Tom Moriarty:had, obviously, over the last 24 months, a lot of opportunity to
Tom Moriarty:start to build those facilitate virtual facilitation skills, but
Tom Moriarty:if there was like one or two very specific takeaways we could
Tom Moriarty:offer for them that maybe was in that train the trainer that you
Tom Moriarty:did for Are all the facilitators that you were teaching to make
Tom Moriarty:for a very effective virtual facilitation? What are like one
Tom Moriarty:or two key key things you would give to our virtual facilitators
Tom Moriarty:out there that they can be doing to make sure they're as
Tom Moriarty:effective as possible when when, you know, facilitating a class
Tom Moriarty:virtually?
Mary Glowacka:Well, you know, to be brief, I think one thing I
Mary Glowacka:would say is the operative word for me here is intentionality.
Mary Glowacka:It's a bit of a tongue twister for me. But intentionality. What
Mary Glowacka:I mean by that is a little bit like with hybrid work in
Mary Glowacka:general, when you're at the office, or in a classroom, yes.
Mary Glowacka:When we talk about training, there are moments that happen
Mary Glowacka:spontaneously and communication and exchange of thoughts,
Mary Glowacka:opinions, sometimes this happens spontaneously, right? You, you
Mary Glowacka:catch someone's eye in the room, and you you know, exchange a
Mary Glowacka:couple of thoughts or someone spontaneously makes a comment in
Mary Glowacka:the room because you know, you feel you feel the room, right?
Mary Glowacka:When you're on your own, like I am now in my house, I don't have
Mary Glowacka:anyone around me to interact with. So I need to be more
Mary Glowacka:intentional with how I interact with people. So perhaps, you
Mary Glowacka:know, whatever application use Zoom, WebEx, MS teams doesn't
Mary Glowacka:matter. But post something or ask a question and say, pop your
Mary Glowacka:answer into the chat box or raise your hand or maybe you do
Mary Glowacka:a little poll for for 30 seconds, you know you for me,
Mary Glowacka:it's that intentionality. And those very, very small but
Mary Glowacka:consistent and constant throughout your session
Mary Glowacka:interactions. So we're not there to talk to people. So so that
Mary Glowacka:intentionality, I still think that one of the things that's
Mary Glowacka:common is, as a facilitator, the energy that you give to the
Mary Glowacka:room, whether it's a physical room, or it's a virtual room,
Mary Glowacka:people feel it, you know, if you project that energy, they will
Mary Glowacka:absorb it and give some of that back to you. Whether you're in a
Mary Glowacka:classroom or in a virtual environment.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, I think those are two great takeaways to
Tom Moriarty:recap, I wrote that down and just be intentional on driving
Tom Moriarty:engagement, you have to be maybe a little bit more thoughtful of
Tom Moriarty:it than when you when you're facilitating in person, because
Tom Moriarty:when you're facilitating in person, it's almost something
Tom Moriarty:that's like, unconsciously competent, you don't even think
Tom Moriarty:about it, you just do it, right. And maybe in a virtual
Tom Moriarty:environment, you're more consciously competent, you have
Tom Moriarty:to think about it to be doing it. But make sure you're being
Tom Moriarty:intentional about that engagement, you're driving with
Tom Moriarty:your audience, and then be the energy. And I couldn't agree
Tom Moriarty:more I you know, it's something, you know, definitely not a
Tom Moriarty:learning and development professional by trade, although
Tom Moriarty:I've worked with them constantly over the last 10 years in my
Tom Moriarty:career, but in a sales or customer facing perspective, I
Tom Moriarty:think that's one of the biggest things I tell my team all the
Tom Moriarty:time is you are the energy that you bring. And so are your
Tom Moriarty:customers, right? They're gonna react to the energy that you
Tom Moriarty:bring to any discussion. So make it positive, make it fun, make
Tom Moriarty:it enjoyable, because, you know, why not enjoy ourselves while
Tom Moriarty:we're here?
Mary Glowacka:Exactly right. And your audience will feel it
Mary Glowacka:as well, if you're enjoying it.
Tom Moriarty:One thing, just to get back to something you
Tom Moriarty:mentioned earlier, you touched on all of the changes that you
Tom Moriarty:guys needed to do to convert the program to virtual and one of
Tom Moriarty:the ones you touched on was the content itself. Can you tell us
Tom Moriarty:about some of those content changes that you guys had to
Tom Moriarty:make to the program to allow it to be more effective to deliver
Tom Moriarty:virtually?
Mary Glowacka:Oh, goodness, I guess I remember a couple of
Mary Glowacka:things from that. Again, when we introduced to more of those
Mary Glowacka:smaller interactions. So like, do a little poll, for example,
Mary Glowacka:you know, every every five or 10 minutes, you know, to keep the
Mary Glowacka:engagement whereby in the classroom, you want to just, you
Mary Glowacka:know, you would just I don't know, ask people to stand up for
Mary Glowacka:two minutes. And, you know, and walk around a little bit. You
Mary Glowacka:know, sometimes trainers do these things in the room, which,
Mary Glowacka:you know, which which are a little bit rogue, but they're
Mary Glowacka:also needed, and, you know, they keep the people engaged, right,
Mary Glowacka:something I didn't mention, but that had a little bit of an
Mary Glowacka:impact on the content as well. Well, not necessarily on the
Mary Glowacka:technical subject matter information or knowledge, but
Mary Glowacka:some of the positioning of some of the key messages because
Mary Glowacka:let's remember, originally, our strategy was to target the
Mary Glowacka:manager population with with this program, and managers would
Mary Glowacka:get a couple of additional resources from us and then
Mary Glowacka:managers would go back to their teams and they did however they
Mary Glowacka:wanted, right. But one of what I believe was actually the...the
Mary Glowacka:greatest benefit of us changing the strategy again, through, not
Mary Glowacka:through, you know, us being intentional about it, but
Mary Glowacka:through external, external factors. But I believe that that
Mary Glowacka:was one of the biggest Silver Linings there is that we
Mary Glowacka:proposed if we've got no traveling costs, if we've got no
Mary Glowacka:venue issues, because also remember, you know, you've got
Mary Glowacka:to have rooms big enough to, to help these people in right?
Mary Glowacka:Look, long story short, we opened the program to all
Mary Glowacka:employees all two hundreds thousand- over 200,000 of them,
Mary Glowacka:because suddenly, if your strategy is completely virtual,
Mary Glowacka:why not open it up to everybody? Why not. And it's become the
Mary Glowacka:most inclusive program across the bank. That was literally
Mary Glowacka:there was nothing else from a learning and development
Mary Glowacka:perspective at the time that every and any employee in the
Mary Glowacka:bank could take advantage of, not to mention that the topic of
Mary Glowacka:emotional wellness and mental health and well being is
Mary Glowacka:applicable to all of us, you know.
Tom Moriarty:Especially in the context of the times.
Mary Glowacka:Absolutely, yes.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, that's great. I think, you know, as it
Tom Moriarty:as it as another takeaway there, I think that that highlight of,
Tom Moriarty:of being thoughtful about those small interactions and those
Tom Moriarty:breaks in, in heavy technical subject matter. And building in
Tom Moriarty:more of those little micro breaks or engagements for that
Tom Moriarty:virtual audience is a is an important and, you know,
Tom Moriarty:thoughtful content design change that people out there out there
Tom Moriarty:in the audience can hopefully take away and consider if
Tom Moriarty:they're not doing today already, and in how this, you know,
Tom Moriarty:modify programs from instructor led in person to more virtual
Tom Moriarty:programs. You know, you mentioned, I think that that's,
Tom Moriarty:that's a great takeaway, it actually kind of answers starts
Tom Moriarty:to be an answer to one of my, one of my other questions, what
Tom Moriarty:are some of the outcomes you believe that you guys were able
Tom Moriarty:to achieve because it was virtual, that maybe weren't
Tom Moriarty:planned or you didn't, you weren't able to see during that
Tom Moriarty:pivot?
Mary Glowacka:First thing is speed of implementation. And
Mary Glowacka:what I mean by that is, again, in the original plan, you know,
Mary Glowacka:there was an element of travel and to, you know, obviously,
Mary Glowacka:you're planning within the means that you have as well. So we
Mary Glowacka:were using internal facilities, available in all those different
Mary Glowacka:hubs. So we were, in many ways limited by by the sizes of the
Mary Glowacka:rooms, and we couldn't have more than a particular number of
Mary Glowacka:people in those rooms. So again, accelerate a little bit. And as
Mary Glowacka:you can imagine, again, this was a multi year program, so no one
Mary Glowacka:expected us to run with it within a year and finish it. But
Mary Glowacka:it was going to be multi multi, a multi multi year program,
Mary Glowacka:which again, suddenly, we were able to reach people much
Mary Glowacka:faster, because we could have unlimited number of people at
Mary Glowacka:every session, because again, that's how it was designed,
Mary Glowacka:really, in the very short instance, that we didn't have to
Mary Glowacka:limit the number of participants in the session. So so so you
Mary Glowacka:can, you know, you can reach your audience is much faster.
Mary Glowacka:And then when you think about the subject matter, you do want
Mary Glowacka:to reach people fast when it comes to mental and emotional
Mary Glowacka:health support. At the best of times, because we know how much
Mary Glowacka:how big a challenge globally around the world, you know,
Mary Glowacka:mental health is really these days. So let alone that but also
Mary Glowacka:think about the timing. It was at the start of the pandemic,
Mary Glowacka:people were panicking, I remember very well because I
Mary Glowacka:worked with people who when they heard that they will need to
Mary Glowacka:work from home now. They they had feared they would come to me
Mary Glowacka:and say, "I've worked at the bank for 15 years, and I never
Mary Glowacka:worked at home once I don't even know how I how do I start,
Mary Glowacka:right? Where do I start?" And so that's speed and especially when
Mary Glowacka:you consider the importance of the topic. And on top of that
Mary Glowacka:you add the timing, you know, then to me that speed is even
Mary Glowacka:more important to get getting through to people as quickly as
Mary Glowacka:possible. And I again, I remember, as we started, you
Mary Glowacka:know, when we finally launched and we started running with it
Mary Glowacka:and we start getting feedback, we will get feedback from people
Mary Glowacka:that this was the best learning experience in their life. I had
Mary Glowacka:feedback that someone, I will never forget it, said, "this
Mary Glowacka:changed... this will change my life." It's because I think
Mary Glowacka:completely differently about me as a human being right now,
Mary Glowacka:because that's how it was all designed to create those aha
Mary Glowacka:moments to show people that, you know, for example, if you say
Mary Glowacka:you can function properly on four hours of sleep, that's
Mary Glowacka:biologically not possible, you know, you will start struggling
Mary Glowacka:at some point, you know, because, because you will, and
Mary Glowacka:there are reasons for it. Anyway, so we, the program
Mary Glowacka:really aimed to not only arm people with tactics and
Mary Glowacka:strategies for building personal resilience and looking after
Mary Glowacka:yourself, especially in difficult times, but also to
Mary Glowacka:hopefully change some of your beliefs about your own limits as
Mary Glowacka:a human being when it comes to health.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, that's I mean, that's the two I take away
Tom Moriarty:there are the, you know, I think that the, I think, you know,
Tom Moriarty:there's one, there's that that perfect storm, right, it
Tom Moriarty:actually, you know, at the beginning, it probably looked
Tom Moriarty:terrifying and daunting and frustrating to have worked so
Tom Moriarty:hard for so long on such a large, large program, that you
Tom Moriarty:had a clear plan for that you're going to execute that you're
Tom Moriarty:going to deliver, and then have to flip it on its head. But I
Tom Moriarty:think the benefits of what happened after doing that with
Tom Moriarty:the speed in which you guys were able to get it out on such a
Tom Moriarty:important topic at such an important time in the world. And
Tom Moriarty:then the accessibility change that existed by being able to
Tom Moriarty:reach directly reach as much of the bank as possible, which
Tom Moriarty:wasn't even a practical consideration in the original
Tom Moriarty:design of the program. You know, it almost, it's almost as if the
Tom Moriarty:benefits, and those outcomes of that change probably, in
Tom Moriarty:retrospect outweighed the challenge of having to change
Tom Moriarty:and having to pivot.
Mary Glowacka:I would add one other thing, I think it's quite
Mary Glowacka:important, actually about consistency as well, because
Mary Glowacka:again, if you think about it, the original strategy was
Mary Glowacka:designed that trained, accredited, professionally
Mary Glowacka:trained for four months facilitators would deliver it to
Mary Glowacka:managers, and then managers who are not trained to that extent
Mary Glowacka:would take those messages to their teams. And with all due
Mary Glowacka:respect, there would be managers who do a great job, there will
Mary Glowacka:be managers who wouldn't, for a number of reasons.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah.
Mary Glowacka:And in the new strategy, we were consistently
Mary Glowacka:giving the same message to everybody. And that message was
Mary Glowacka:given by people who weren't professionally trained for four
Mary Glowacka:months to do it.
Tom Moriarty:That's a great one. That's super, I'm glad you
Tom Moriarty:jumped in. I'm super glad that you added that because it is
Tom Moriarty:that's a hugely important difference, right? I think that
Tom Moriarty:if our audience wants to take one thing away, that, to me
Tom Moriarty:stands out is here, regardless of what the next 24-48 months of
Tom Moriarty:our worlds look like, you know, there's a tool here that a lot
Tom Moriarty:of people started to exercise some muscles in. And that is
Tom Moriarty:hybrid delivery. That if you're thinking about supporting an
Tom Moriarty:audience, that is needs to be, you know, a piece of delivering
Tom Moriarty:a piece of content that needs to be widely accessible, that needs
Tom Moriarty:to get out to an audience quickly, where you need to
Tom Moriarty:ensure consistency of communication. And this is a
Tom Moriarty:tool in your belt, it's a benefit of what's happened over
Tom Moriarty:the last 24 to 48 months, if you if you've learned how to
Tom Moriarty:exercise the muscle of delivering hybrid learning, you
Tom Moriarty:know, don't forget to assess your strategy. And if the
Tom Moriarty:requirements of your program include, you know, speed to
Tom Moriarty:market, easy accessibility for a large audience and consistency
Tom Moriarty:of delivery. So you've got a good tool for that. And you've
Tom Moriarty:probably gotten really effective at delivering using a hybrid
Tom Moriarty:model or virtual model in the last, you know, 24 to 48 months.
Tom Moriarty:One other question. You know, this was a very visible program,
Tom Moriarty:as we started out earlier, I don't want to lose sight of the
Tom Moriarty:fact that you are leading a program that's co sponsored,
Tom Moriarty:right? Working across a number of stakeholders managing that,
Tom Moriarty:what was the perspective of the sponsors on the program after
Tom Moriarty:the pivot? They obviously had goals and business outcomes they
Tom Moriarty:were expecting your CEO was expecting to achieve? What kind
Tom Moriarty:of feedback did you...we've heard of the amazing feedback
Tom Moriarty:from the facilitators from the learners themselves. What kind
Tom Moriarty:of feedback did you get from the stakeholders?
Mary Glowacka:Pretty similar in nature, to be honest, because
Mary Glowacka:actually, we as part of the kickoff, and the very start
Mary Glowacka:first, we invited our top executives from the bank to go
Mary Glowacka:through it and feedback from them was was really glowing. And
Mary Glowacka:I know that sounds like Nirvana. But look... Again, I believe I
Mary Glowacka:believe that ultimately, and normally, I believe, I believe
Mary Glowacka:because of my experiences that ultimately to someone like your
Mary Glowacka:leadership teams in the business, it doesn't matter
Mary Glowacka:necessarily how exactly you're going to do it, as long as it
Mary Glowacka:brings about the results that they were all expecting. And,
Mary Glowacka:and in fact, we exceeded their expectations if you think about
Mary Glowacka:it, because first of all, again, something we didn't mention, but
Mary Glowacka:you know, a little bit more detailed. The plan was really
Mary Glowacka:that it will take us about three years to go through this to
Mary Glowacka:complete this program. And then when you think about cost of
travel:it's travel, it's hotels, it's providing food. I
travel:mean, that's, that's a huge budget. We also saved a lot of
travel:time, because, look, I am all for a human-to-human connection
travel:I am, I love getting together with people, I love the energy
travel:that a group of people can generate when they are in one
travel:room together. But again, many people think, Oh, it's so fancy
travel:to travel, you know, on the one hand, maybe it is. But a lot of
travel:the time, the reality is that, you know, especially back in the
travel:day that you would go to a two-day course, ultimately,
travel:you're using four days in your week, because you might take one
travel:day to travel, two days of the course, one more day to travel,
travel:depending on how you know where you're going, how your flights
travel:are organized, and so on. So, yeah, so really, and the quality
travel:of the output was still exactly what we expected, you know, same
travel:content is delivered differently, delivered by people
travel:who are professionally equipped and prepared to do this cost
travel:time reduction. In inclusivity, increase speed to market I mean,
travel:you know, it's a whole list of benefits, really, if you think
travel:about it.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, yeah, that's great. I mean, it's, I think
Tom Moriarty:it's great. But at some point, I didn't want our listeners to
Tom Moriarty:miss, right, because I think that to your point, it's not
Tom Moriarty:just the benefits to the team executing the program, through
Tom Moriarty:the change, because there was clearly benefits there. It's not
Tom Moriarty:just the benefits to the learners. But there's clear,
Tom Moriarty:quantifiable benefits to the stakeholders that are supporting
Tom Moriarty:and funding this effort. And I think also the takeaway of, of,
Tom Moriarty:for a program that's large, you know, make sure those
Tom Moriarty:stakeholders are in the first class, and that they're bought
Tom Moriarty:into the delivery as you continue to roll that out. I
Tom Moriarty:think that's a, an actionable thought that our audience can
Tom Moriarty:take away after, if that's not something that they're already
Tom Moriarty:doing.
Mary Glowacka:Really, business sponsorship, and leadership
Mary Glowacka:sponsorship for any learning and development programs, since
Mary Glowacka:we're focusing on programs here today, is is incredibly,
Mary Glowacka:incredibly impactful. If the business leaders don't care
Mary Glowacka:about your programs, or teams will not care about the program,
Mary Glowacka:and vice versa.
Tom Moriarty:Yeah, I've seen that myself. Even in in, we've
Tom Moriarty:brought in over the course of my career at Mimeo, we've brought
Tom Moriarty:in outside agencies, customers, in fact, to help deliver sales
Tom Moriarty:training to our organization. And, you know, one that I can
Tom Moriarty:think of, we did with Richardson and all of our leaders did it
Tom Moriarty:first. We were super, we loved it, like we, we had so much fun,
Tom Moriarty:we were like, "Oh, I can't wait for our teams do this." And it
Tom Moriarty:was great. Our team still, I still have people who bring that
Tom Moriarty:up all the time. Right. And I think that that is a difference.
Tom Moriarty:So I think that's a huge takeaway. Mary, I just want to
Tom Moriarty:stop and say kudos to you and your entire team. I mean, that's
Tom Moriarty:a it's an incredible story. I really appreciate you sharing
Tom Moriarty:it. And that's quite the accomplishment, the end of the
Tom Moriarty:day. I mean, you guys did I think what any professional
would do:you looked at the reality of the situation, and
would do:understood what the requirements were and you move forward to the
would do:best of your ability and the outcome that you guys were able
would do:to achieve with you know, improved speed to market reduced
would do:budget, travel expense, accessibility to even more of
would do:the bank with content that was super important at a super
would do:important time. Not just professionally, but personally
would do:for the people that work for you guys. I mean, that's something
would do:awesome and I can only imagine the impact that had you know,
would do:for the team and the employees at Bank of America. So thank you
would do:for for sharing the story. There's a... I guess one last
would do:thing before we wrap here today, you've shared a lot you've got a
would do:lot of experience if our if our listeners want to learn more
would do:about you or reach out or learn more about the story and
would do:specifics where where can they find you socially on LinkedIn or
would do:anything like that? What's the best way for our listeners to
would do:reach out and learn more about you and your story?
Mary Glowacka:Yes, I'd love to connect with anyone who who
Mary Glowacka:would like to as well. I love collaborating and and and
Mary Glowacka:meeting new people as well. So would be fantastic is you can
Mary Glowacka:find me on LinkedIn. Well just pop in my name and my last name.
Mary Glowacka:And you'll find me if any of you are members of the Josh Burson
Mary Glowacka:Academy. I'm also their senior faculty there. And you can find
Mary Glowacka:me in the Hacking HR community as well. So if you are not
Mary Glowacka:familiar with that community, also check it out on LinkedIn.
Mary Glowacka:We've got over 200,000 followers, I think. So Hacking
Mary Glowacka:HR. But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. So please connect.
Tom Moriarty:That's great. Awesome. Well, Mary, thank you
Tom Moriarty:so much for your time today. Thank you for your story. And
Tom Moriarty:thank you for your you and your team's contribution to you know,
Tom Moriarty:the wellness of 200,000 Bank of America employees. I think it's
Tom Moriarty:an awesome story and really appreciate it.
Mary Glowacka:Well, it's a you know, it takes a village to
Mary Glowacka:deliver a project but thank you so much for listening and for
Mary Glowacka:being here with us today. I really enjoyed it. Thanks, Tom.
Tom Moriarty:The Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo,
Tom Moriarty:the better way to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk of
Tom Moriarty:the Trade, for tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders.
Tom Moriarty:Visit www.mimeo.com for more information
