Hybrid Learning: Improving the Virtual Elements Cindy Huggett joins us to discuss how trainers stuck with hybrid classrooms can optimize their virtual elements, and a roadmap for moving to blended learning. TranscriptTom Moriarty: 00:00:01Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society ofTom Moriarty: 00:00:03Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&DTom Moriarty: 00:00:07changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporateTom Moriarty: 00:00:10environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that fromTom Moriarty: 00:00:14their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to makeTom Moriarty: 00:00:17yourself, your people and your organization's more successful.Tom Moriarty: 00:00:21In this first season, we're exploring topic of hybridlearning: 00:00:24what that means at different organizations, why itlearning: 00:00:27is increasingly important, and how L&D leaders can invest inlearning: 00:00:30the right resources to best leverage it. Today, we'relearning: 00:00:35discussing what good hybrid learning looks like. Cindylearning: 00:00:38Huggett, author and virtual training expert is joining us tolearning: 00:00:41discuss definitions what most organizations are doing todaylearning: 00:00:44and where L&D leaders need to invest in order to make surelearning: 00:00:47their hybrid programs actually achieve their learning andlearning: 00:00:50business outcomes. Cindy, welcome.Cindy Huggett: 00:00:53Thank you so much for having me, Tom.Tom Moriarty: 00:00:56So Cindy, you know, before we jump into theTom Moriarty: 00:00:59podcast itself, could you just share a little bit about yourTom Moriarty: 00:01:02background?Cindy Huggett: 00:01:03Sure. I think the thing your listeners will beCindy Huggett: 00:01:06most interested in is that I've been doing hybrid and virtualCindy Huggett: 00:01:10learning for the last 20 years. I was working inside anCindy Huggett: 00:01:14organization in the early: 2000Cindy Huggett: 00:01:18traveling but still provide training to my global audience.Cindy Huggett: 00:01:21So I started using a really early version of WebEx toCindy Huggett: 00:01:26provide training. And I ended up going out on my own thinking I'dCindy Huggett: 00:01:30do some HR and training consulting. And I kept gettingCindy Huggett: 00:01:33asked Cindy, how are you doing this virtual thing? And so ICindy Huggett: 00:01:36started writing and speaking and teaching and consulting on howCindy Huggett: 00:01:40to do virtual well. Needless to say, the last two years haveCindy Huggett: 00:01:43been very busy. And it's been a lot of fun to work with clientsCindy Huggett: 00:01:47around the globe and helping them do virtual training andCindy Huggett: 00:01:50hybrid learning really well.Tom Moriarty: 00:01:52That's great. I'd like to start to just level setTom Moriarty: 00:01:54this conversation with some definition. So let's start withthis fun buzzword: 00:01:58hybrid learning. What does that mean tothis fun buzzword: 00:02:02you, Cindy?Cindy Huggett: 00:02:03Well, for me, hybrid learning in a workplaceCindy Huggett: 00:02:06setting means a synchronous event, a live event, where someCindy Huggett: 00:02:11of the participants are in person, and some of theCindy Huggett: 00:02:13participants are remote. And I think it's important to startCindy Huggett: 00:02:18the conversation here, Tom, because as I've been talking andCindy Huggett: 00:02:22researching and writing about hybrid for the past severalCindy Huggett: 00:02:25years, in just the last few months, I've had a number ofCindy Huggett: 00:02:29people say things like, Well, what about the assignment? OrCindy Huggett: 00:02:31what about the self led part? And it's led me to realize that,Cindy Huggett: 00:02:36especially in a university setting or a college setting,Cindy Huggett: 00:02:40that in that context, hybrid means a curriculum that has someCindy Huggett: 00:02:47synchronous and some asynchronous. So when we say theCindy Huggett: 00:02:50word hybrid, it's really important to find out what'sCindy Huggett: 00:02:53your definition of hybrid? Are you talking about a curriculum aCindy Huggett: 00:02:57journey? Are you talking about a single event that happens toCindy Huggett: 00:03:01have an audience in different locations? And so I refer toCindy Huggett: 00:03:05hybrid, as that latter definition, the synchronousCindy Huggett: 00:03:09event that has audiences, some in person, some remote, andCindy Huggett: 00:03:15let's let's refer to hybrid that way.Tom Moriarty: 00:03:18That's great. Blended learning. What does thatTom Moriarty: 00:03:21mean to you?Cindy Huggett: 00:03:21Oh, there's definitely overlap, becauseCindy Huggett: 00:03:24blended learning in a workplace setting is a journey. It's aCindy Huggett: 00:03:29curriculum that happens to have some self led and some in personCindy Huggett: 00:03:35or instructor led could be online, and more likely thanCindy Huggett: 00:03:39not, is online. But it's this intentionally designedCindy Huggett: 00:03:43curriculum that has multiple modalities. So for example, ifCindy Huggett: 00:03:47I'm learning how to be a customer service agent, I mightCindy Huggett: 00:03:52do some self study on my own, I might go to some classes, I mayCindy Huggett: 00:03:55do some practice and some coaching. And it's theCindy Huggett: 00:03:57combination of all of that, that creates the dedicated blendedCindy Huggett: 00:04:02learning curriculum. Now, like we were just talking about in aCindy Huggett: 00:04:06university setting, they call that hybrid, but we in theCindy Huggett: 00:04:10workplace or corporate learning setting are going to call thatCindy Huggett: 00:04:13blended.Tom Moriarty: 00:04:14And the last one I like to dive into is hybridTom Moriarty: 00:04:17classroom. What does that mean to you?Cindy Huggett: 00:04:20So it's an interesting term, hybridCindy Huggett: 00:04:22classroom. There are certain vendors out there and especiallyCindy Huggett: 00:04:28recently who have become quite popular who offer technologyCindy Huggett: 00:04:32packages that are dedicated hybrid classrooms. It may be aCindy Huggett: 00:04:38camera or a camera bar, or maybe an audio system, or a wall ofCindy Huggett: 00:04:46video screens where the hybrid classroom a dedicated room thatCindy Huggett: 00:04:52makes doing hybrid easy. One small example of that is zoomCindy Huggett: 00:04:57rooms. When we think of the product zoom that we're evenCindy Huggett: 00:05:01using right now to record this conversation, we think of it asCindy Huggett: 00:05:05a synchronous event, there's a product, Zoom rooms, most of theCindy Huggett: 00:05:09major software vendors who create virtual or videoCindy Huggett: 00:05:14conferencing are coming out with this type of technology. So whenCindy Huggett: 00:05:19I think of a hybrid classroom, I think of a dedicated classroomCindy Huggett: 00:05:23that makes doing hybrid learning or having hybrid meetingsCindy Huggett: 00:05:27easier.Tom Moriarty: 00:05:28If my notes are correct, for the purposes of ourTom Moriarty: 00:05:30conversation, hybrid learning is a live event, right, where youTom Moriarty: 00:05:35have an audience that might be physically in front of you andTom Moriarty: 00:05:38an audience also might be distributed. Whereas blendedTom Moriarty: 00:05:41learning, that's really about your curriculum. It's theTom Moriarty: 00:05:44curriculum journey, which is different than an actual liveTom Moriarty: 00:05:47event. And then the classroom, as you put it, is really kind ofTom Moriarty: 00:05:51a product or a tool or a location that's designed to makeTom Moriarty: 00:05:55facilitating that hybrid learning as easy as possible.Cindy Huggett: 00:05:59Absolutely. And the one thing I would add forCindy Huggett: 00:06:02the hybrid classroom, even though there are dedicatedCindy Huggett: 00:06:05vendors who are creating certain rooms that make it easy, you canCindy Huggett: 00:06:10also do it on your own. If you have any conference room, right,Cindy Huggett: 00:06:14any conference room where you set up with a laptop, or anCindy Huggett: 00:06:18audio connection, or a video connection, you can make that aCindy Huggett: 00:06:21hybrid classroom, but it's a dedicated space.Tom Moriarty: 00:06:24I love that idea of a DIY hybrid classroom, ITom Moriarty: 00:06:26think we'll get back to that later in our conversation. So asTom Moriarty: 00:06:30you shared with the audience, this is your space. This is yourTom Moriarty: 00:06:33area of expertise. It's where you've been working and living,Tom Moriarty: 00:06:35even before March: 2020Tom Moriarty: 00:06:38research, you know, in the state of virtual training report thatTom Moriarty: 00:06:42you've shared, sounds like most organizations who say thatTom Moriarty: 00:06:45they're doing hybrid learning, are really delivering classroomTom Moriarty: 00:06:50training to a blend of people remote, kind of that yourTom Moriarty: 00:06:54definition of hybrid learning, right? They're calling itTom Moriarty: 00:06:56blended, some are calling it hybrid. I want to really, reallyTom Moriarty: 00:07:00focus the entire discussion on how do you maximize theTom Moriarty: 00:07:03delivery? In that setting? How do you make it as effective asTom Moriarty: 00:07:07possible in terms of achieving that business outcome? So first,Tom Moriarty: 00:07:11maybe you've got an L&D professional who's trying toTom Moriarty: 00:07:14balance that decision of, Hey, should I deliver this with aTom Moriarty: 00:07:17hybrid learning event? Or should I deliver this with in person?Tom Moriarty: 00:07:21What are some of the benefits that they'll get from choosingCindy Huggett: 00:07:24So I have a big smile on my face. Because backCindy Huggett: 00:07:24the hybrid?Cindy Huggett: 00:07:27in: 2016Cindy Huggett: 00:07:31Templates book, I wrote about hybrid learning, and I actuallyCindy Huggett: 00:07:36wrote, don't do it, I wrote, this is something that if youTom Moriarty: 00:07:40That's great. It's a... It's not the entire I thinkTom Moriarty: 00:07:41can avoid it, avoid it. And if though you have to do it, thenTom Moriarty: 00:07:45here's how you do it well. Here's here's what we can do.Tom Moriarty: 00:07:50And fast forward to: 2022Tom Moriarty: 00:07:54my recommendation that if you have an audience that is inTom Moriarty: 00:07:58person together, co located, and you have an audience that'sTom Moriarty: 00:08:03remote, if you have the time, the resources, the energy, theTom Moriarty: 00:08:08ability to have let's take a training class topic, anyTom Moriarty: 00:08:12training class topic, and to do an in person version of it, andTom Moriarty: 00:08:17to do an online or virtual version of it, do that. Now theTom Moriarty: 00:08:21reality is most organizations don't have those type ofTom Moriarty: 00:08:25resources. We're not able to say, "I want to offer theTom Moriarty: 00:08:30management development program in person. And I want to offerTom Moriarty: 00:08:34the management development program online." And so theTom Moriarty: 00:08:38reality of how we're working today with work hasn't stopped,Tom Moriarty: 00:08:43but work location has changed. Some people are in an office,Tom Moriarty: 00:08:48some are remote, some are always from this point forward, goingTom Moriarty: 00:08:53to be remote or have the choice of whether or not they'reTom Moriarty: 00:08:57remote, you have a good strong internet connection and aTom Moriarty: 00:09:01laptop, or access to the programs you need. You can workTom Moriarty: 00:09:06from anywhere. So when we talk about maximizing what should weTom Moriarty: 00:09:10do to embrace hybrid learning is let's recognize just like youTom Moriarty: 00:09:15can work from anywhere you can learn from anywhere, and we'reTom Moriarty: 00:09:20going to get deeper into more of the how, but recognize that weTom Moriarty: 00:09:25want to allow our remote audience those who are workingTom Moriarty: 00:09:29remotely by choice or for whatever reason that is thatTom Moriarty: 00:09:33they can participate in the learning program as well. We nowTom Moriarty: 00:09:38have the technology that allows that to happen. Facilitators whoTom Moriarty: 00:09:43can get the skills to do that well designed that can beTom Moriarty: 00:09:47effective for those dual audiences so we can embrace it.Tom Moriarty: 00:09:51We just need to recognize that it is a dedicated effort onTom Moriarty: 00:09:56behalf of many stakeholders to make it worthwhileTom Moriarty: 00:10:04most people were expecting. But I love that I think that the,Tom Moriarty: 00:10:07you know, the reality is that, you know, as you said, facedTom Moriarty: 00:10:11with other options, this wouldn't be your first choice.Tom Moriarty: 00:10:15But faced with the reality of many people's circumstances,Tom Moriarty: 00:10:20given the fact that much of the workforce or some parts of mostTom Moriarty: 00:10:24people's workforces will now be and likely remain remote forTom Moriarty: 00:10:28some period of time. But you've got an audience, you've got toTom Moriarty: 00:10:31be able to reach. Right. And I think that now, as you've you soTom Moriarty: 00:10:35beautifully said, the benefits are a growing skill set andTom Moriarty: 00:10:40toolset, to be able to do that and deliver it well, in a wayTom Moriarty: 00:10:45that's impactful, that creates an outcome. So let's get intoTom Moriarty: 00:10:48that. But I want to start, maybe not with what works. But what doTom Moriarty: 00:10:52you see that doesn't work? I feel like sometimes that can beTom Moriarty: 00:10:55a more actionable takeaway. So what are some of the bigTom Moriarty: 00:10:57mistakes you see, in hybrid learning delivery?Cindy Huggett: 00:11:00I see two big mistakes in hybrid learningCindy Huggett: 00:11:03delivery. And the first one is facilitators who pay attentionCindy Huggett: 00:11:09to the audience right in front of them if they're in the room,Cindy Huggett: 00:11:12they're co located. And yes, they have the remote audience,Cindy Huggett: 00:11:16and they know that they're there. But whether consciouslyCindy Huggett: 00:11:19or subconsciously, they don't put the emphasis on them. WhichCindy Huggett: 00:11:23really leads me to the second mistake. And when we think aboutCindy Huggett: 00:11:26preparation for an event, many years ago, when we only did inCindy Huggett: 00:11:32person events, your preparation was on your content, yourCindy Huggett: 00:11:35preparation was on what's the topic, whether my outcomes, whatCindy Huggett: 00:11:39are the activities? Are we really focused in on that. AndCindy Huggett: 00:11:43then when everyone went virtual, when when we started doingCindy Huggett: 00:11:46virtual training, the preparation was on theCindy Huggett: 00:11:49technology on what software will I use? Does everyone have aCindy Huggett: 00:11:54webcam or headset? Right? both hardware and software, theCindy Huggett: 00:11:57technology was the focus, content was still important, butCindy Huggett: 00:12:01the focus became technology. Now that we're in a hybrid learningCindy Huggett: 00:12:06environment, where we have audiences in differentCindy Huggett: 00:12:09locations, the focus of our preparation needs to be on theCindy Huggett: 00:12:14participant experience. We with empathy, think through what'sCindy Huggett: 00:12:19the audience experience going to be like our in person audience,Cindy Huggett: 00:12:24are they going to have devices to connect in? What's that goingCindy Huggett: 00:12:29to be like in the room? Can we get them on camera? My remoteaudience: 00:12:32What's the experience going to be like for them? Areaudience: 00:12:36we going to ask them to be on camera? Are we going to modifyaudience: 00:12:40activities to ensure that they feel included? And again, it'saudience: 00:12:45not that the technology is not important? It's not that theaudience: 00:12:47content is not important, but our shift in focus. So theaudience: 00:12:51mistake that I see made is not shifting focus of where ouraudience: 00:12:55preparation needs to be, and especially as hybrid is new foraudience: 00:12:58many organizations. We're getting used to it theaudience: 00:13:03preparation that goes into it being successful. There needs toaudience: 00:13:07be emphasis on that.Tom Moriarty: 00:13:09I think that that specific takeaway on shiftingTom Moriarty: 00:13:14the focus to the participant experience is a fantastic one.Tom Moriarty: 00:13:19Let me ask you one follow up question. The first mistake isTom Moriarty: 00:13:22the facilitator, the facilitator, not giving theTom Moriarty: 00:13:26right focus or engagement with the remote audience versus theTom Moriarty: 00:13:30audience, right for what can facilitators do? What are someTom Moriarty: 00:13:34tips or tricks you might have for them to try to ensureTom Moriarty: 00:13:37they're better balancing addressing their completeTom Moriarty: 00:13:40audience?Cindy Huggett: 00:13:41That's a great question. And there are a coupleCindy Huggett: 00:13:43of things that facilitators can do when they've got a hybridCindy Huggett: 00:13:46audience. Perhaps, first of all, we should just call out theCindy Huggett: 00:13:50assumption that the facilitator is in the room that they're coCindy Huggett: 00:13:54located because in some organizations, it may be theCindy Huggett: 00:13:58facilitator who's remote. So if you have that scenario, you wantCindy Huggett: 00:14:02to designate an in room moderator or somebody who is coCindy Huggett: 00:14:06located with your audience, and they can be your eyes and ears.Cindy Huggett: 00:14:11So let's assume that the facilitator is in the classroomCindy Huggett: 00:14:15in with the co located participants. What are someCindy Huggett: 00:14:20things that they can do number one, keep a remote firstCindy Huggett: 00:14:22mentality? By that, I mean, if there's a question that's askedCindy Huggett: 00:14:27that they get the remote audience to respond first, or ifCindy Huggett: 00:14:33they're using the camera to present a short segment thatCindy Huggett: 00:14:38they're looking at the camera screen as opposed to looking atCindy Huggett: 00:14:42the in person audience. It's not that you never look at the inCindy Huggett: 00:14:45person audience but we pay attention to the camera lens andCindy Huggett: 00:14:49we focus our eyes so that the remote audience feels likeCindy Huggett: 00:14:54they're part of the conversation. If in personCindy Huggett: 00:14:58audience members starts speaking to one another, and they can'tCindy Huggett: 00:15:02be heard on the audio, the facilitator could either pauseCindy Huggett: 00:15:06that conversation to make sure there's a microphone or someCindy Huggett: 00:15:10other, perhaps repetition of what's being said. So the remoteCindy Huggett: 00:15:15audience feels like they're there. And to, to follow on aCindy Huggett: 00:15:21sports analogy, when you think about any type of big sportingCindy Huggett: 00:15:27event that you're watching on television, that you're notCindy Huggett: 00:15:29actually there, you listen to the announcers, who are talkingCindy Huggett: 00:15:34about it. And the goal of the announcer, is to help you feelCindy Huggett: 00:15:38like you're there. They describe the crowd, they describe theCindy Huggett: 00:15:41scene, they describe what's happening, they use colorfulCindy Huggett: 00:15:44language, to paint the picture of what's happening. And that'sCindy Huggett: 00:15:49the same idea of what an in person facilitator can do toCindy Huggett: 00:15:53help the remote audience feel like they're there. For example,Cindy Huggett: 00:15:57if there's a long pause, the facilitator could say somethingCindy Huggett: 00:16:00like, "Jane is getting ready to load some slides up," or "we'reCindy Huggett: 00:16:04waiting for Adam to come back into the room," just that ideaCindy Huggett: 00:16:10of helping the remote audience feel like they're there. Tom, ICindy Huggett: 00:16:14could keep going. I actually teach a workshop in how toCindy Huggett: 00:16:16facilitate hybrid events. And hopefully, that gives you anCindy Huggett: 00:16:20idea of a few quick things that take a little extra intention, aCindy Huggett: 00:16:26little extra effort, but go a long way to helping the remoteCindy Huggett: 00:16:30audience feel like they're part of the class feel like they'reCindy Huggett: 00:16:34part of the learning experience.Tom Moriarty: 00:16:36Cindy, that's great. I love the energy, and ITom Moriarty: 00:16:38love some of the takeaways. Moving on. So we've talked aboutTom Moriarty: 00:16:41some of the common mistakes, we've talked about some thingsTom Moriarty: 00:16:43that you could do to address them. So let's say you've got anTom Moriarty: 00:16:46L&D department there, they know they're going to be serving aTom Moriarty: 00:16:49population that is a mix of in person and remote learners. WhyTom Moriarty: 00:16:52should they consider adding other content delivery methodsTom Moriarty: 00:16:56besides just the hybrid learning event into the mix to moveTom Moriarty: 00:17:02towards a more blended model? Why is that something that theyTom Moriarty: 00:17:05should consider given the context in our audience?Cindy Huggett: 00:17:07Tom, I think that's the golden question forCindy Huggett: 00:17:10us to answer because our goal as learning departments is to helpCindy Huggett: 00:17:15our audience learn, right, that's an obvious statement. ButCindy Huggett: 00:17:19the reason we do any learning intervention in a trainingCindy Huggett: 00:17:23program, any sort of formalized learning effort is to help ourCindy Huggett: 00:17:30audience to do something better to learn a new skill. And if weCindy Huggett: 00:17:36want that to happen, then we need to be thinking about theCindy Huggett: 00:17:40best way for them to learn. In my work in virtual training,Cindy Huggett: 00:17:44something I hear over and over and over again, and I've heardCindy Huggett: 00:17:48it for years, is that "when my participants are multitasking,Cindy Huggett: 00:17:52they don't answer questions." They're not paying attention,Cindy Huggett: 00:17:54right? It sounds different in different contexts. But theCindy Huggett: 00:17:57general idea is how do we engage our remote audiences. AndCindy Huggett: 00:18:03whether it's virtual, whether it's hybrid, we have when weCindy Huggett: 00:18:07think about the workforce today, a very capable set of adults whoCindy Huggett: 00:18:15can do work and can can do work on their own right, the theCindy Huggett: 00:18:19future of remote and hybrid work is really asynchronous, allowingCindy Huggett: 00:18:27people to do things on their own. We've got overloadedCindy Huggett: 00:18:30plates, we've got overloaded schedules, we have so much. AndCindy Huggett: 00:18:35part of the reason why people are multitasking or not engagingCindy Huggett: 00:18:38is that we're bringing them together for a live event, whenCindy Huggett: 00:18:43what our goal is of trying to get them to learn what we'reCindy Huggett: 00:18:47trying to do they could do on their own. Like, for example,Cindy Huggett: 00:18:52are we bringing people together just to lecture ask them, whyCindy Huggett: 00:18:55not record that and let them watch it on their own time, andCindy Huggett: 00:18:58then bring them together for q&a, bring them together forCindy Huggett: 00:19:03some practice, or discussion or dialogue about that topic? OrCindy Huggett: 00:19:07instead of bringing them together to do a demonstration,Cindy Huggett: 00:19:12could we create a job aid? Could we create an asynchronousCindy Huggett: 00:19:16elearning? And I think, most learning departments, we need toCindy Huggett: 00:19:20think about how much learning can we create, that our learnersCindy Huggett: 00:19:26can do on their own or in small cohorts, according to time thatCindy Huggett: 00:19:31works for them in their work schedule. And I'm not sayingCindy Huggett: 00:19:35make them do work on I don't know, after hours or the middleCindy Huggett: 00:19:39of the night, but things if this is important for their job andCindy Huggett: 00:19:43we're building an accountability, then we want toCindy Huggett: 00:19:46honor and respect the fact that they're adult learners and thatCindy Huggett: 00:19:49they can take accountability for learning and so we're bringingCindy Huggett: 00:19:52them together, for collaboration for communication, forCindy Huggett: 00:19:57discussion, for practice, for feedback and we're making itCindy Huggett: 00:20:02count. So to answer your original question, why should aCindy Huggett: 00:20:06learning department be looking at creating other assets blendedCindy Huggett: 00:20:10learning, because blended learning is largely self ledCindy Huggett: 00:20:15asynchronous where we bring people together for theCindy Huggett: 00:20:19collaboration in the conversation.Tom Moriarty: 00:20:21The interesting thing about that, that I wasTom Moriarty: 00:20:23writing down as you're sharing your thoughts is it's itTom Moriarty: 00:20:26actually goes back to the biggest mistake that youTom Moriarty: 00:20:28mentioned just a moment ago, right? You mentioned, the secondTom Moriarty: 00:20:31biggest mistake is not putting the participant experienceTom Moriarty: 00:20:35first, specifically in the hybrid learning environment, andTom Moriarty: 00:20:39that in that event, where you've got a mix of remote and inTom Moriarty: 00:20:41person learners, but it almost sounds like you're saying, if ITom Moriarty: 00:20:45could make a leap here, the biggest mistake is not puttingTom Moriarty: 00:20:49the participant experience first, also, as it relates toTom Moriarty: 00:20:52content design, because that's what I took from your, from yourTom Moriarty: 00:20:55answer there. It's really about understanding, hey, you've gotTom Moriarty: 00:20:58to a group of adults, you've got to deliver them content toTom Moriarty: 00:21:02achieve an outcome that fits in their schedule at the time thatTom Moriarty: 00:21:05they need it. And maybe part of the way to think about that isTom Moriarty: 00:21:08think about their experience with the content first. And isTom Moriarty: 00:21:12this the right content experience, not just as directTom Moriarty: 00:21:14classroom experience?Cindy Huggett: 00:21:16Absolutely, absolutely.Tom Moriarty: 00:21:18So I want to go back, you know, you are theTom Moriarty: 00:21:21expert. Of course, as they say, I want to go back to two teamsTom Moriarty: 00:21:26that are kind of doubling down on delivering training to aTom Moriarty: 00:21:29hybrid group. So there, they know that they're going toTom Moriarty: 00:21:31deliver hybrid learning, they're going to do it consistently,Tom Moriarty: 00:21:34they're going to invest in it, because they know they have thisTom Moriarty: 00:21:37distributed workforce, it's going to be a mix of in person,Tom Moriarty: 00:21:42and remote. So what I'd like to do is understand as that teamTom Moriarty: 00:21:48exists today, where do they invest the most? Right, so I'llTom Moriarty: 00:21:51give you some categories, I'd like you to try to prioritizeTom Moriarty: 00:21:55these three categories, where are some terms of investment forTom Moriarty: 00:21:58the L&D team. So one would be course development. The secondTom Moriarty: 00:22:02would be technology that are better helps facilitate theTom Moriarty: 00:22:06delivery of a hybrid learning environment, or the third wouldTom Moriarty: 00:22:10be facilitation skills for the people who are actuallyTom Moriarty: 00:22:13facilitating. So if you had to prioritize, you know, an orderTom Moriarty: 00:22:17of importance, one, two, or three, because, you know, notTom Moriarty: 00:22:20everybody can do all three, unfortunately, how would youTom Moriarty: 00:22:23prioritize those? And then how would you maybe help theTom Moriarty: 00:22:27audience think about how they should in the context of theirTom Moriarty: 00:22:30business?Cindy Huggett: 00:22:31It's so interesting that you asked thisCindy Huggett: 00:22:33question, because in my annual State of Virtual TrainingCindy Huggett: 00:22:37report, one of the questions that I've asked over the lastCindy Huggett: 00:22:40few years is, "what do you wish your organization didCindy Huggett: 00:22:44differently about virtual training?" Over and over andCindy Huggett: 00:22:49over again, I hear, "I don't have enough resources." And ICindy Huggett: 00:22:52hear that from designers, I hear that from facilitators, I hearCindy Huggett: 00:22:57that in multiple contexts. But the idea of resources for aCindy Huggett: 00:23:03designer that means I need time to develop training, developCindy Huggett: 00:23:09learning experiences that are significant and meaningful andCindy Huggett: 00:23:14valuable. In other words, I can't just take a classroomCindy Huggett: 00:23:19training program and a slide deck and slap it into an onlineCindy Huggett: 00:23:23learning program and call it like, there's the... I needCindy Huggett: 00:23:26resources, I need time for do that. So that's a very importantCindy Huggett: 00:23:30priority. The facilitators will say, "I need time to learn theCindy Huggett: 00:23:35technology, you're going to put me in a room with theseCindy Huggett: 00:23:40technical components, I need to learn how they work, I needCindy Huggett: 00:23:44practice, I need the time to upskill myself." And they'reCindy Huggett: 00:23:50also going to say we need to equip our participants, theyCindy Huggett: 00:23:54need webcams or they need quality headsets, or they needCindy Huggett: 00:23:57better internet connectivity. Because the participant whoCindy Huggett: 00:24:01can't stay connected to a learning program is obviouslyCindy Huggett: 00:24:04not learning. They're spending all their time and energy tryingCindy Huggett: 00:24:07to just reconnect to the program. So the answer isCindy Huggett: 00:24:12resources. The resources that matter are going to depend onCindy Huggett: 00:24:17your organizational structure. Do you have a team ofCindy Huggett: 00:24:19instructional designers or are you asking facilitators to doCindy Huggett: 00:24:25the design? What kind of infrastructure do you have forCindy Huggett: 00:24:28your participants? So when you think about the theCindy Huggett: 00:24:32infrastructure of the resources, if I had to pick a priority, ICindy Huggett: 00:24:37would invest in your facilitators, they're the onesCindy Huggett: 00:24:40that can make it work in any learning environment, but theyCindy Huggett: 00:24:45need the skills to effectively engage remote audiences and in aCindy Huggett: 00:24:51hybrid environment to effectively engage bothCindy Huggett: 00:24:54environments. We also want them to be so comfortable with theCindy Huggett: 00:24:58technology platforms where you using. For example, if they'reCindy Huggett: 00:25:01using a collaboration whiteboard, we want them to beCindy Huggett: 00:25:04very skilled and able to explain it to participants so thatCindy Huggett: 00:25:09participants can just use the whiteboard for the activity, andCindy Huggett: 00:25:13not be bogged down in trying to learn how the whiteboard works,Cindy Huggett: 00:25:17right? It's not about the whiteboard, it's about theCindy Huggett: 00:25:19learning that's behind it. So if I had to prioritize facilitatorCindy Huggett: 00:25:24upskilling facilitator technology, the next place ICindy Huggett: 00:25:29would go is to look at are my participants equipped with whatCindy Huggett: 00:25:32they need? And do my designers have the skills and the time andCindy Huggett: 00:25:36the resources to create good quality, interactive learning?Tom Moriarty: 00:25:41I like that's Cindy, I really appreciate that.Tom Moriarty: 00:25:43I think that that's a path that I think would make most peopleTom Moriarty: 00:25:46successful. So I appreciate the the really clear framework andTom Moriarty: 00:25:51focus there. I do want to get back to something that we talkedTom Moriarty: 00:25:54about way earlier that I loved as a term. I did want to makeTom Moriarty: 00:26:00sure we picked your brain on before we wrapped up thisTom Moriarty: 00:26:03conversation today. The DIY hybrid classroom. Let's let'sTom Moriarty: 00:26:10talk about that a little bit. How do we how do we get you onTom Moriarty: 00:26:12HGTV doing DIY hybrid classrooms?Cindy Huggett: 00:26:15Great idea. How fun would that be? So when weCindy Huggett: 00:26:19think about the equipment that you need, number one clearCindy Huggett: 00:26:23audio, creating an audio connection where everybody canCindy Huggett: 00:26:28be heard, and you've probably seen on TV, maybe work for anCindy Huggett: 00:26:32organization that has a room where there's a microphone andCindy Huggett: 00:26:35every seat. And that is a fantastic yet rare luxury toCindy Huggett: 00:26:41have. But we do want to think about where's the microphoneCindy Huggett: 00:26:45placement? Where do we pick up the audio, number one. NumberCindy Huggett: 00:26:49two, video? Do we have a camera in the room that everybody whoCindy Huggett: 00:26:54is in person can be seen. And if not? Well, we have mobileCindy Huggett: 00:26:59devices, we have tablets, we have laptops with built inCindy Huggett: 00:27:02cameras, where are we going to position them? Now thinkingCindy Huggett: 00:27:05about room positioning, if you place the camera at the front ofCindy Huggett: 00:27:10the room, and you have a presenter or facilitator orCindy Huggett: 00:27:13speaker who is standing at the front of the room, it's probablyCindy Huggett: 00:27:17going to pick up the back of their head. So thinking aboutCindy Huggett: 00:27:20the positioning of the camera where that camera is going toCindy Huggett: 00:27:25pick up anyone who is speaking or presenting. So perhaps youCindy Huggett: 00:27:30put it in the back of the room, or there are cameras that willCindy Huggett: 00:27:34swivel and turn based on where the audio is coming from.Cindy Huggett: 00:27:38There's some pretty cool technology out there that couldCindy Huggett: 00:27:42be employed or used. But can it take time to set up the audioCindy Huggett: 00:27:47and the video correctly? Now, I believe it's important thatCindy Huggett: 00:27:51anyone who's in the room, a participant who's joining coCindy Huggett: 00:27:55located together has the same device or the same access to theCindy Huggett: 00:28:00technology that the remote learners do. So if I'm invitingCindy Huggett: 00:28:04learners and participants in person, I'm going to ask them toCindy Huggett: 00:28:07bring their laptop or bring their mobile device so that theyCindy Huggett: 00:28:11can respond to a poll question or type in chat or use theCindy Huggett: 00:28:15electronic whiteboard. The catch is they can't connect to audio,Cindy Huggett: 00:28:19if they connect to the audio, we're gonna have echo problemsCindy Huggett: 00:28:22go lower. So little bit of a tech check, making sure thatCindy Huggett: 00:28:27it's just one audio connection in the room, and then everyoneCindy Huggett: 00:28:31else on equal playing field, but the same tools that everyoneCindy Huggett: 00:28:35who's connected into the hybrid learning will have.Tom Moriarty: 00:28:38So the DIY hybrid classroom sounds like makingTom Moriarty: 00:28:41sure you've got your clear audio, camera, both quality andTom Moriarty: 00:28:46positioning. And then if you've got if you need to beTom Moriarty: 00:28:48resourceful with that, you know, don't be afraid of the good oldTom Moriarty: 00:28:51cell phone, right. And then last, which I like as aTom Moriarty: 00:28:56takeaway, because I don't think it's always emphasized enough,Tom Moriarty: 00:28:58I'm even thinking back to a hybrid learning session that ITom Moriarty: 00:29:02did for one of my teams in December. And that's theTom Moriarty: 00:29:06universal access to the technology. I think that's aTom Moriarty: 00:29:08great one. I think that ultimately, going back to yourTom Moriarty: 00:29:11earlier takeaway, which is putting the experience of theTom Moriarty: 00:29:15remote learner first, you can't really do that if you don't haveTom Moriarty: 00:29:19the full classroom engaged in the same places do the sameTom Moriarty: 00:29:22technology. So I love that tip. I think that's a really goodTom Moriarty: 00:29:24one. Cindy, before we wrap up, are there any closing thoughtsTom Moriarty: 00:29:29or ideas or takeaways that you'd like to leave the audience with?Tom Moriarty: 00:29:34You know, as it relates to the goal of delivering good hybridTom Moriarty: 00:29:38learning?Cindy Huggett: 00:29:38Tom, I can think of so many things I would loveCindy Huggett: 00:29:41to keep talking about. But I know we have limited amount ofCindy Huggett: 00:29:45time. And I think I would leave the listener with this. And thatCindy Huggett: 00:29:50is to remember it's about the learning and it's about theCindy Huggett: 00:29:53learner. And if we remember that if we put ourselves in theirCindy Huggett: 00:29:57shoes and think through what do they need to learn and how canCindy Huggett: 00:30:00we help enable that learning, then we're going to createCindy Huggett: 00:30:05value. And that's our goal as facilitators, trainers,Cindy Huggett: 00:30:09presenters, designers, anybody in an l&d department, our goalCindy Huggett: 00:30:13is to add value to our learners. And so let's make sure we'reCindy Huggett: 00:30:17doing that regardless of the environment that we're workingCindy Huggett: 00:30:20inTom Moriarty: 00:30:20Create value for your learners. That's a perfectTom Moriarty: 00:30:22closing statement. I love that. Cindy, if our audience wants toTom Moriarty: 00:30:25learn more about you, where can they find you?Cindy Huggett: 00:30:29The best place is to go to my website, which isCindy Huggett: 00:30:32Cindy huggett.com. I'm sure we'll put it in the show notes.Cindy Huggett: 00:30:35I have a resource library out there full of differentCindy Huggett: 00:30:39resources that are available, you can download, I facilitateCindy Huggett: 00:30:42workshops, I write books, I have a new book coming out later inCindy Huggett: 00:30:462022, called the Facilitators Guide to Immersive, Blended andCindy Huggett: 00:30:50Hybrid Learning. So you want to be on the lookout for that. AndCindy Huggett: 00:30:54I can't wait for everyone to see the resources that I've beenCindy Huggett: 00:30:58working on specifically related to that. You'll also find me onCindy Huggett: 00:31:02Twitter and Linked In. Cindyhugg is my tagline. And you'll findCindy Huggett: 00:31:06me out there in both places.Tom Moriarty: 00:31:08Cindy, thank you so much for your time, it's beenTom Moriarty: 00:31:11great. We'll definitely have links to all your socialTom Moriarty: 00:31:13avenues, as well as the website in the show notes. And thank youTom Moriarty: 00:31:17so much for your time. I hope this has been very impactful. WeTom Moriarty: 00:31:20appreciate it. I hope you have an awesome rest of your day.Tom Moriarty: 00:31:23The Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo, the better wayTom Moriarty: 00:31:26to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk of the Trade, forTom Moriarty: 00:31:30tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders. Visit