Hybrid Learning: The Secret to Enabling Frontline Employees JD Dillon, Chief Learning Architect at Axonify, defines hybrid learning with one word: equity. Tune in for his take on what hybrid learning is and how it is your secret to enabling (and keeping) frontline employees. TranscriptTom Moriarty: 00:00:01Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society ofTom Moriarty: 00:00:03Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&DTom Moriarty: 00:00:07changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporateTom Moriarty: 00:00:10environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that fromTom Moriarty: 00:00:14their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to makeTom Moriarty: 00:00:17yourself, your people and your organization's more successful.Tom Moriarty: 00:00:21In this first season, we're exploring topic of hybridlearning: 00:00:24what that means at different organizations, why itlearning: 00:00:27is increasingly important, and how L&D leaders can invest inlearning: 00:00:30the right resources to best leverage it. In this episode,learning: 00:00:35we're focusing on delivering hybrid learning to frontlinelearning: 00:00:37employees to discuss what that means and how to do it well.learning: 00:00:40We've invited JD Dillon, Chief Learning Architect at Axonify tolearning: 00:00:44join the conversation. Welcome, JD.JD Dillon: 00:00:46Hi, everybody.Tom Moriarty: 00:00:47JD, I know you've got vast experience in the L&DTom Moriarty: 00:00:51world, but but for our listeners who might be get to know you forTom Moriarty: 00:00:53the first time through this podcast, why don't you tell us aTom Moriarty: 00:00:56little bit about your background?JD Dillon: 00:00:58Sure, I've been doing this for 20 odd years at thisJD Dillon: 00:01:01point. By "this" I mean a blend of corporate operationsJD Dillon: 00:01:04management and learning and development roles. So the bulkJD Dillon: 00:01:08of my career was really split between three differentJD Dillon: 00:01:11organizations. So I spent 10 years with the Walt DisneyJD Dillon: 00:01:13Company, which is why I live in Orlando, Florida, and I can hearJD Dillon: 00:01:18the Magic Kingdom. So if anyone wonders exactly how close am IJD Dillon: 00:01:21to Disney, I can, especially at night, I can hear the MagicJD Dillon: 00:01:24Kingdom. So I spent 10 years in various different types of rolesJD Dillon: 00:01:27doing some wacky stuff at Disney, including workplaceJD Dillon: 00:01:31learning and development roles, supporting cast members acrossJD Dillon: 00:01:34the resort, so about 65,000 ish people. And then I went toJD Dillon: 00:01:38Kaplan, the world's largest education company, where I wasJD Dillon: 00:01:41director of learning technology and development. So I handledJD Dillon: 00:01:43our technology stack, our instructional design and contentJD Dillon: 00:01:46practices and that type of stuff. And then about six ishJD Dillon: 00:01:49years ago, at this point, little over six years, I went acrossJD Dillon: 00:01:52the street to the provider side of the equation in learning andJD Dillon: 00:01:56development and joined Axonify. I was actually a customer ofJD Dillon: 00:01:58Axonify. When I was at Kaplan, I was a customer number seven. SoJD Dillon: 00:02:02I got to know the team early on, and then formally joined asJD Dillon: 00:02:05Chief Learning Architect a little over six years ago. AndJD Dillon: 00:02:07now I basically spend a lot of my time in the learning andJD Dillon: 00:02:11performance space, talking to people understanding whatJD Dillon: 00:02:14challenges they're facing, how they're overcoming thoseJD Dillon: 00:02:16challenges, and then connecting the dots to what we do atJD Dillon: 00:02:19Axonify to improve our technology, our content, ourJD Dillon: 00:02:22services, and our and our messaging so we can helpJD Dillon: 00:02:25especially frontline employees around the world in spaces likeJD Dillon: 00:02:28retail, grocery manufacturing, contact centers, finance andJD Dillon: 00:02:31insurance do their best work every day. And that's why I doJD Dillon: 00:02:35what I do.Tom Moriarty: 00:02:36That's awesome. JD, thanks for the intro in theTom Moriarty: 00:02:39background. And obviously, we've got an expert on our hands here.Tom Moriarty: 00:02:42So look, really looking forward to digging into theTom Moriarty: 00:02:44conversation. Now that we've gotten to know you a little bit,Tom Moriarty: 00:02:47I want to for the sake of the audience level set, a couple ofTom Moriarty: 00:02:51terms definitions from your perspective of some key termsTom Moriarty: 00:02:55that we'll focus on throughout this conversation. So the firstTom Moriarty: 00:02:59one is hybrid learning. What does that mean to you?JD Dillon: 00:03:05To me, hybrid learning basically means equity,JD Dillon: 00:03:07it means that it doesn't matter where I do my job, I get theJD Dillon: 00:03:11support that I need to be able to do it as effectively as IJD Dillon: 00:03:14can. So in a large organization, that dynamic company that has aJD Dillon: 00:03:19nce, and may have hundreds to: 1000JD Dillon: 00:03:23job roles and people doing their jobs in very different ways. SoJD Dillon: 00:03:26one learning and development or HR function may be supportingJD Dillon: 00:03:30audiences that include people like me, who... I'm sitting at aJD Dillon: 00:03:32desk in front of an unnecessarily bright lightingJD Dillon: 00:03:35panel right now, they may have to support me working from home.JD Dillon: 00:03:39Simultaneously, maybe you support workers who are in onJD Dillon: 00:03:42the manufacturing line, you may support traveling salespeople,JD Dillon: 00:03:45you may support people who are frontline in a retail likeJD Dillon: 00:03:48environment. And in a true hybrid learning scenario, ifJD Dillon: 00:03:51we're really accomplishing what the term hybrid learning means,JD Dillon: 00:03:55it means all of those people get the right support. They don'tJD Dillon: 00:03:58get the same support, right, because the same support doesJD Dillon: 00:04:02not support all of those different people because they doJD Dillon: 00:04:06their jobs very differently. So in order to accomplish what weJD Dillon: 00:04:09talked about in terms of a hybrid learning strategy,JD Dillon: 00:04:12everyone in the organization needs to have equitable accessJD Dillon: 00:04:15to learning and support resources so they can do theirJD Dillon: 00:04:18best work, regardless of how that work is done.Tom Moriarty: 00:04:21That's great. Thank you. That was a veryTom Moriarty: 00:04:23thorough definition. I really like the term equity, and theTom Moriarty: 00:04:27focus on the equitable distribution of learningTom Moriarty: 00:04:31resources to all employees. I think that's a that's a reallyTom Moriarty: 00:04:34good takeaway. I'm sure it's something we'll come back toTom Moriarty: 00:04:36throughout the conversation. For our conversation based on yourTom Moriarty: 00:04:41focus Axonify and what you guys do, we're going to focusTom Moriarty: 00:04:44specifically on delivering hybrid learning to a frontlineTom Moriarty: 00:04:48employee. So to make sure, I think, to very commonly usedTom Moriarty: 00:04:52term especially in the last 24 to 36 months, given everythingTom Moriarty: 00:04:57that's been going on, but could you quickly defined, what wouldTom Moriarty: 00:05:01you see as a frontline employee?JD Dillon: 00:05:04The simplest way I tend to break it down is it'sJD Dillon: 00:05:06the people who are directly interacting with the company'sJD Dillon: 00:05:08customers and or products and services. So, from a consumerJD Dillon: 00:05:13perspective, it's the people you talk to. So when you go to theJD Dillon: 00:05:15grocery store, it's the it's the clerks that you interact with,JD Dillon: 00:05:18the person who slices your deli meat, the person who checks youJD Dillon: 00:05:21out at the cash register, the person who may be brings yourJD Dillon: 00:05:23groceries to the curb, to fulfill your online order, itJD Dillon: 00:05:27may be the person who is dropping off the package thatJD Dillon: 00:05:29you ordered online. And as a delivery driver, it may be theJD Dillon: 00:05:32person who packed that package in a logistics distributionJD Dillon: 00:05:36center or warehouse, or the person who was on theJD Dillon: 00:05:39manufacturing line putting that package together, or thatJD Dillon: 00:05:41product together. So it's the people who are most directlyJD Dillon: 00:05:45facing the customer side of the business. So the contact centerJD Dillon: 00:05:49agent, the people who we interact with, and when you doJD Dillon: 00:05:51the math, roughly speaking, it represents about 80% of theJD Dillon: 00:05:55global workforce. Because when you think of largeJD Dillon: 00:05:59organizations, like a retailer, as an example, a retailer mayJD Dillon: 00:06:02have, let's say 600 locations, and they have, you know, maybeJD Dillon: 00:06:091000 people in the corporate team, but they have 30,000JD Dillon: 00:06:12people on the frontline team, right? So it's it's the largerJD Dillon: 00:06:16chunk of the global workforce. And unfortunately, it's also theJD Dillon: 00:06:20most underserved part of the workforce when it comes toJD Dillon: 00:06:23learning and support practices.Tom Moriarty: 00:06:25Sounds like a challenge, but also maybe anTom Moriarty: 00:06:27opportunity at the same time, right. That's great. Thank you.Tom Moriarty: 00:06:32I think that that that will level set the stage forTom Moriarty: 00:06:35everybody. And I think that those definitions, you know,Tom Moriarty: 00:06:38where we're talking about the audience, in an organizationTom Moriarty: 00:06:42that specifically directly interacting with the customer orTom Moriarty: 00:06:45the product, I think that's a great definition. And, you know,Tom Moriarty: 00:06:49for the context, this conversation, we're going toTom Moriarty: 00:06:51focus about how to make sure there's equity in the learningTom Moriarty: 00:06:54environment, so that those probably harder to reachTom Moriarty: 00:06:58physically, people in the organization, and as you wellTom Moriarty: 00:07:02said, historically underserved people in the organization, howTom Moriarty: 00:07:07are how are they getting the proper learning so that we doTom Moriarty: 00:07:09have an equitable environment? So, you know, the world has hadTom Moriarty: 00:07:15a lot going on in the last 24 to 36 months. I'd love toTom Moriarty: 00:07:20understand from your perspective, you've been workingTom Moriarty: 00:07:22in that, you know, serving the frontline workers throughTom Moriarty: 00:07:26onify, for well, before March: 2020Tom Moriarty: 00:07:33changed in the last 24 months that with all that's been goingTom Moriarty: 00:07:36on in the world?JD Dillon: 00:07:38So I think the first piece is to recognize the factJD Dillon: 00:07:42that businesses have realized the importance of the frontlineJD Dillon: 00:07:46workforce. I don't think anyone would have ever said frontlineJD Dillon: 00:07:49execution is not important to our business. But at the sameJD Dillon: 00:07:52time, I don't believe most organizations meaningfullyJD Dillon: 00:07:55prioritized that, which is why I said that they're oftenJD Dillon: 00:08:00underserved when it comes to not just learning and supportJD Dillon: 00:08:02resources, but technology, broadly speaking, communication,JD Dillon: 00:08:06rewards and recognition, right. A lot of strategies that areJD Dillon: 00:08:09often applied in a corporate environment, or even in a remoteJD Dillon: 00:08:12environment, often have not hit the frontline workforce. So theJD Dillon: 00:08:16fact that we relied on that team. So clearly, for the lastJD Dillon: 00:08:21couple of years, we've always relied on them. But we noticedJD Dillon: 00:08:24the last couple of years, the consumers noticed andJD Dillon: 00:08:27organizations noticed. And then organizations noticed when thoseJD Dillon: 00:08:32people went missing. So right now everyone is having talent,JD Dillon: 00:08:36retention and acquisition problems. And that's especiallyJD Dillon: 00:08:39clear in frontline roles now that employees have options,JD Dillon: 00:08:44where before it didn't high turnover didn't necessarilyJD Dillon: 00:08:49matter. Because there were people that were going toJD Dillon: 00:08:50backfill those positions in a lot of people's minds. Today,JD Dillon: 00:08:53finding those people is much more difficult because everyJD Dillon: 00:08:56retailer and restaurant and logistics operation is not onlyJD Dillon: 00:09:00competing with Amazon, and not only competing against employersJD Dillon: 00:09:03who are all raising their wages and their benefits, which areJD Dillon: 00:09:05all positive things. But now they're also competing withJD Dillon: 00:09:09remote work opportunities. And the fact that it's easier thanJD Dillon: 00:09:12ever for me to make a shift in direction when it comes to whatJD Dillon: 00:09:16I may want to do instead of going back to work in theJD Dillon: 00:09:18restaurant that was closed for a while, I might not want to goJD Dillon: 00:09:21back to that because now, circumstances have afforded me aJD Dillon: 00:09:25decision. And I'm making a decision and takingJD Dillon: 00:09:27opportunities that previously were not available to me. AndJD Dillon: 00:09:30then there's all you know, other considerations around number ofJD Dillon: 00:09:32people who retired out of the frontline workforce. So overall,JD Dillon: 00:09:36I think organizations have now recognized how just challengingJD Dillon: 00:09:39it is to run your business, not only when you're short staffedJD Dillon: 00:09:42on the front line, but when you also don't have the rightJD Dillon: 00:09:44capability, the right skills on the front line, because beforeJD Dillon: 00:09:49you may have been hiring in people who had some retailJD Dillon: 00:09:51background to backfill people who are returning out in thoseJD Dillon: 00:09:54environments. Now it's hard to find people who have thatJD Dillon: 00:09:56experience who are coming through the door with certainJD Dillon: 00:09:58knowledge and skills So now we have to look at, well, how do weJD Dillon: 00:10:02not only close gaps within the operation so we can keep doorsJD Dillon: 00:10:05open, keep our stores open, as long as you want to make sureJD Dillon: 00:10:08our specialty departments are open, make sure we're able toJD Dillon: 00:10:10provide a differentiated customer experience that bringsJD Dillon: 00:10:12people back. So they don't always go online or they goJD Dillon: 00:10:15online to your channels. But how do we get people up to speedJD Dillon: 00:10:20quickly, and replace some of that knowledge that walked outJD Dillon: 00:10:24the door when turnover happened out of circumstance over theJD Dillon: 00:10:27last two years. So I think those those factors, and then theJD Dillon: 00:10:30nature of how that frontline work is done has also shiftedJD Dillon: 00:10:35considerably. And everyone says things like, you know, the lastJD Dillon: 00:10:38few years have actually accelerated this 10 plus yearsJD Dillon: 00:10:40when it comes to things like digital transformation, and thatJD Dillon: 00:10:42type of stuff. And that's true on the frontline as well, whereJD Dillon: 00:10:45I think the concept of digital transformation has lagged, youJD Dillon: 00:10:48e us have were zooming before: 2020JD Dillon: 00:10:53now we are heavily zoomed. In frontline employees often didn'tJD Dillon: 00:10:58see the same type of technology investment or didn't see theJD Dillon: 00:11:00same type of impact of their work. But now more employeesJD Dillon: 00:11:04than ever carrying around handheld devices, becauseJD Dillon: 00:11:07they're fulfilling online orders and interacting directly withJD Dillon: 00:11:09customers via chat applications. More and more organizationsJD Dillon: 00:11:12starting to recognize the potential for Bring Your OwnJD Dillon: 00:11:14Device strategies. And a lot of that red tape is starting toJD Dillon: 00:11:17fall away that the technology environment around the frontlineJD Dillon: 00:11:21workforce has shifted out of necessity, over the past coupleJD Dillon: 00:11:24of years, which has accelerated that that teams need to be ableJD Dillon: 00:11:29to have those types of skills be able to leverage technology inJD Dillon: 00:11:32their work in ways that were, I'd say more progressive on theJD Dillon: 00:11:36corporate side before the last few years. And now they'veJD Dillon: 00:11:38caught up a bit when it comes to having a more digitally enabledJD Dillon: 00:11:42day to day work experience.Tom Moriarty: 00:11:45That's great. So what I'm hearing there, takingTom Moriarty: 00:11:48notes, as the some of the key takeaways and changes, I thinkTom Moriarty: 00:11:51first is that realization from the company perspective of theTom Moriarty: 00:11:56true importance, right, a real level of detail about theTom Moriarty: 00:12:01realization and the impact that the frontline has on each andTom Moriarty: 00:12:04every organization that has a large frontline employees staff,Tom Moriarty: 00:12:09the second being the really competitive work environment,Tom Moriarty: 00:12:13right, a competitive labor environment at the end of theTom Moriarty: 00:12:14day that that has created significant business challengesTom Moriarty: 00:12:18for the businesses with a high amount of frontline employees.Tom Moriarty: 00:12:21And then the third being the technological changes forTom Moriarty: 00:12:25frontline plays, and changes in either business strategy orTom Moriarty: 00:12:28support for those employees as it relates to access forTom Moriarty: 00:12:33technology. So obviously, those are three big pillars of changeTom Moriarty: 00:12:37there. I mean, how do those, you know, jumping into the learningTom Moriarty: 00:12:40side of things, you know, how has those three pillars affectedTom Moriarty: 00:12:46how organizations go about delivering the skills andTom Moriarty: 00:12:51knowledge that those people need to get up to speed quickly?JD Dillon: 00:12:56I'd say it has opened doors, because if you kind ofJD Dillon: 00:12:58take two considerations in mind, and how do you overcome theseJD Dillon: 00:13:03considerations, which is one, like we said, You've got toJD Dillon: 00:13:07onboard people quickly, in a way that is going to set them up forJD Dillon: 00:13:13success, make them feel confident their ability to doJD Dillon: 00:13:15this job, and also make them feel good in the decision thatJD Dillon: 00:13:17they decided to work here. So if you are historically a companyJD Dillon: 00:13:23that might hire in a frontline employee, and then sit them inJD Dillon: 00:13:26the back room for two days for click-next-to- continueJD Dillon: 00:13:29elearning, because that's what someone said that they have toJD Dillon: 00:13:31do, that employee might just leave, because they have anotherJD Dillon: 00:13:36option. This is not the only chance they have to get a jobJD Dillon: 00:13:40that pays this amount with these types of benefits. And that'sJD Dillon: 00:13:43why in the past, especially in frontline employment, we oftenJD Dillon: 00:13:47felt like the employee had to earn the right to work here,JD Dillon: 00:13:50right, they earn the job, now the job has to earn theJD Dillon: 00:13:52employee. So there's the factor that you can't just sit someone,JD Dillon: 00:13:57like people don't have time, or the desire to do that version ofJD Dillon: 00:14:02training, whether it be onboarding or otherwise, plusJD Dillon: 00:14:05operators don't have the time to afford for that. Because if I'mJD Dillon: 00:14:09hiring people right now, it's because I need them right now. IJD Dillon: 00:14:12don't need them two days from now. If I get them two days fromJD Dillon: 00:14:14now, I might not be able to open my entire operation today.JD Dillon: 00:14:18Right? The restaurant might open not might not make day one. Yes,JD Dillon: 00:14:22we might not have all our menu items might be limited, which isJD Dillon: 00:14:24going to cut into my my profits and revenue. So so there is notJD Dillon: 00:14:29an affordance to be able to do a lot of the traditional things weJD Dillon: 00:14:32did when it came to tactics like longer courses, like puttingJD Dillon: 00:14:35people in a classroom, like the kind of just what traditionalJD Dillon: 00:14:39nature of workplace training looks like on the front line,JD Dillon: 00:14:42and then merge that with that kind of digital transformationJD Dillon: 00:14:46reality that technology piece, where in the last few yearsJD Dillon: 00:14:49organizations recognized they can't reach their frontlineJD Dillon: 00:14:53teams with even simple messages, right. So when things started toJD Dillon: 00:14:56change, there are a lot of executives out there whoJD Dillon: 00:14:59suddenly acknowledged, I can't talk to my staff. Right. And inJD Dillon: 00:15:03order to get to my retail staff, I've got to send a message toJD Dillon: 00:15:07corporate comms. And then they're gonna deploy a messageJD Dillon: 00:15:09via email to the store managers, and then those store managersJD Dillon: 00:15:12may or may not deliver the desired message on time. AndJD Dillon: 00:15:15will they get everyone? Or will they only get people who were onJD Dillon: 00:15:17shift today? What about the people who don't work this week?JD Dillon: 00:15:19Right, all of those things just bubble up very quickly, asJD Dillon: 00:15:22things started to change, people needed to keep people up toJD Dillon: 00:15:24speed. And we're not necessarily talking about like learning andJD Dillon: 00:15:27training, we're talking about baseline communication, quickJD Dillon: 00:15:30updates, right, the things you need to know in order to be ableJD Dillon: 00:15:32to do your work today. So that realization, plus the fact thatJD Dillon: 00:15:38frontline work became more digital, and devices wereJD Dillon: 00:15:41suddenly more available than ever before, bring your ownJD Dillon: 00:15:44device became more acceptable, because people needed to reachJD Dillon: 00:15:48their frontline teams to keep them up to date, what was goingJD Dillon: 00:15:50on, that created new opportunity. Because now L&D canJD Dillon: 00:15:55reach the frontline. Where before to get to them, we had toJD Dillon: 00:15:58go through that same game of telephone of do we sendJD Dillon: 00:16:01information to managers and managers deploy the training andJD Dillon: 00:16:04teach people which they're not necessarily skilled in doing so.JD Dillon: 00:16:07Or we've got to ask real nicely to be able to get peopleJD Dillon: 00:16:11scheduled out of the operation for chunks of time, which beforeJD Dillon: 00:16:14was hard, and now is impossible. But now, because a lot of thatJD Dillon: 00:16:18technology has opened up and someone's carrying a zebraJD Dillon: 00:16:21device all day in in the hardware store, or they're ableJD Dillon: 00:16:24to use their own phone, or maybe the company's even deployedJD Dillon: 00:16:26phones, we've seen personal devices deployed by frontlineJD Dillon: 00:16:30employers to employees, they're literally giving people phonesJD Dillon: 00:16:33in certain situations. That's a gateway for L&D to say, I canJD Dillon: 00:16:36now reach the employee. But I have to rethink how I do that,JD Dillon: 00:16:41or how I design content, how I design activities, how I designJD Dillon: 00:16:45resources, because I have now a digital gateway to the frontJD Dillon: 00:16:49line to be able to get them information in the flow of work.JD Dillon: 00:16:53But it needs to fit the flow of work. Because if my contentJD Dillon: 00:16:57library, and all my resources are built for a traditionalJD Dillon: 00:17:00delivery, where I've got the person in a back room for twoJD Dillon: 00:17:03days, even if it's great content, they're not going to doJD Dillon: 00:17:06it. They've got five minutes, they've got 10 minutes, they'veJD Dillon: 00:17:09got the time between when they clock in and they have to hitJD Dillon: 00:17:12their you know, get behind the specialty department. How do weJD Dillon: 00:17:15use that time becomes the question mark. But the greatJD Dillon: 00:17:18thing is that the technology gives us new options that weJD Dillon: 00:17:21didn't have before. When it comes to different types ofJD Dillon: 00:17:25content, modality different ways to leverage data, different waysJD Dillon: 00:17:28to personalize the experience. So all of all of those things weJD Dillon: 00:17:32used to talk about a lot with corporate employees aroundJD Dillon: 00:17:34personalized adaptive learning, digital learning, all of theseJD Dillon: 00:17:38different types of things, all of those doors are now open forJD Dillon: 00:17:40all employees. Because of the way work has changed the wayJD Dillon: 00:17:44prioritization has changed and that realization that I need toJD Dillon: 00:17:48be able to reach my employees. And in order to you know,JD Dillon: 00:17:51creating that connection point can be leveraged by more thanJD Dillon: 00:17:54just the communications team and executive team managers. It canJD Dillon: 00:17:57be leveraged equally successfully by L&D.Tom Moriarty: 00:18:00That's, that's great. There's a lot thereTom Moriarty: 00:18:02sounds to me like this is likely based on the business dynamicsTom Moriarty: 00:18:06you shared earlier, probably becoming a really significantTom Moriarty: 00:18:09priority for learning and development professionals withTom Moriarty: 00:18:12large frontline staff.JD Dillon: 00:18:15100%. And I think it when we... That's why I keepJD Dillon: 00:18:18coming back to the concept of equity, because we can't, weJD Dillon: 00:18:22don't have to get rid of anything. I'm not saying youJD Dillon: 00:18:24have to completely get rid of any practices that you're usingJD Dillon: 00:18:26today in order to provide an equitable experience, includingJD Dillon: 00:18:29frontline employees. It's more about a rethink. When you take aJD Dillon: 00:18:32step back and say, what does the work look like? Right? What isJD Dillon: 00:18:37the day to day work experience for the audience or audiencesJD Dillon: 00:18:39you support? And what does that persona of that workforceJD Dillon: 00:18:45indicate? Or how does that direct how you adjust yourJD Dillon: 00:18:49support strategies, because there may be different audiencesJD Dillon: 00:18:52within your workforce that have similar personas. So you mayJD Dillon: 00:18:55have frontline retail employees in your audience, you may haveJD Dillon: 00:18:58contact center agents, and you may have corporate team membersJD Dillon: 00:19:01Support Center team members, some who work from home some whoJD Dillon: 00:19:03work in the office. Well, if you look at the contact centerJD Dillon: 00:19:06employee and the retail employee, their jobs are veryJD Dillon: 00:19:08different right one is sitting on the phone cannot get off theJD Dillon: 00:19:11phone, be on the phone, you have to be on the phone. That's whatJD Dillon: 00:19:14contact center agents do. The retail employee has maybeJD Dillon: 00:19:17working in a specialty store, maybe there's like four otherJD Dillon: 00:19:19people on shift with them regularly. They're customerJD Dillon: 00:19:22facing, they're constantly stocking and restocking shelves,JD Dillon: 00:19:25you know, right facing merchandise executing tasksJD Dillon: 00:19:29assigned by corporate. So they don't have a ton of time either.JD Dillon: 00:19:32But they've got a little bit more flexibility, but they'reJD Dillon: 00:19:34not in front of a computer and the contact center agent is butJD Dillon: 00:19:36the commonality is the fact that they're very operationallyJD Dillon: 00:19:39focused, they've got minutes in their day, and you're not goingJD Dillon: 00:19:41to be able to schedule them out to attend a zoom session. EvenJD Dillon: 00:19:44though the contact center agents sitting in front of a webcamJD Dillon: 00:19:46potentially getting their time is difficult. So when you seeJD Dillon: 00:19:49the similar similarities between personas, they might benefitJD Dillon: 00:19:53from similar types of learning experiences, similar types ofJD Dillon: 00:19:56content design, where the person like me who's maybe theJD Dillon: 00:19:59corporate employee, I can make decisions, right? I can say, I'mJD Dillon: 00:20:02going to carve 30 minutes out of my schedule today, in order toJD Dillon: 00:20:05complete an online course, in something that I am particularlyJD Dillon: 00:20:08interested in, but it's not maybe something that has beenJD Dillon: 00:20:11prioritized by the company. So no one assigned to me thatJD Dillon: 00:20:13training, right? On the frontline side in the contextJD Dillon: 00:20:16center example, they can't make the decision to say, I'm goingJD Dillon: 00:20:18to take 30 minutes today.It doesn't it doesn't exist. And ifJD Dillon: 00:20:22they go to their manager and say, I'd like time that managersJD Dillon: 00:20:24got to find time, because they're measured based on callJD Dillon: 00:20:28handling time, right? They need to make sure people are there toJD Dillon: 00:20:31answer the phone when the phones are ringing. So we can take aJD Dillon: 00:20:35lot of that dynamic out by looking at the personas that weJD Dillon: 00:20:39support, and figuring out where are there commonalities whereJD Dillon: 00:20:42the same tools or tactics technologies may work acrossJD Dillon: 00:20:45different audiences, but then where there's such differencesJD Dillon: 00:20:48in how people do their jobs, the time available, the tools theyJD Dillon: 00:20:52use, the devices they use, that requires a specific approach orJD Dillon: 00:20:56a specific tool to meet that, and then help the people that weJD Dillon: 00:21:00work with stakeholders, decision makers, it compliance and legal,JD Dillon: 00:21:05like all of our friends, help them see those differences. SoJD Dillon: 00:21:08they understand why we might need to make investment inJD Dillon: 00:21:10certain areas, or why the technology we use for theJD Dillon: 00:21:13corporate team doesn't fit on the frontline, because it's justJD Dillon: 00:21:17not how frontline employees engage, because of how they doJD Dillon: 00:21:21their jobs every day. So rather than make it about learning, andJD Dillon: 00:21:24which is what's a good learning strategy that's important to us,JD Dillon: 00:21:27that's not necessarily top of mind, for a lot of other people.JD Dillon: 00:21:30Make it about what the work experience is like for differentJD Dillon: 00:21:34people and different personas, and what we can do to help themJD Dillon: 00:21:38achieve their goals. Because again, coming back to thatJD Dillon: 00:21:40earlier point, if if the specialty department, theJD Dillon: 00:21:44product team, right, the marketing team, whoever isJD Dillon: 00:21:46trying to change behavior, whoever is trying to accomplishJD Dillon: 00:21:50a goal or reach a KPI within the business, if we can say to them,JD Dillon: 00:21:55I can help you connect to the people who are going to executeJD Dillon: 00:21:58your strategy and help you achieve that goal. Here's what IJD Dillon: 00:22:01need to do it. That's the way we should be thinking about thisJD Dillon: 00:22:04story about providing an equitable experience. And thenJD Dillon: 00:22:06learning is part of that strategy. But it's not aboutJD Dillon: 00:22:11learning, if that makes sense. Because everyone's trying toJD Dillon: 00:22:14accomplish different goals. We're specialists in theJD Dillon: 00:22:17learning behavior change side of the equation, we need to connectJD Dillon: 00:22:20what we do to the personas of our audiences, to the goals andJD Dillon: 00:22:23priorities of the people that were enabled by or that are ourJD Dillon: 00:22:27stakeholders. So connecting those dots is critical toJD Dillon: 00:22:30delivering that equitable experience.Tom Moriarty: 00:22:32Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense, right? ITom Moriarty: 00:22:34think it's I think what I'm what I'm hearing you say is it'sTom Moriarty: 00:22:36about working with the stakeholder audiences thatTom Moriarty: 00:22:40you're supporting, understanding their desired outcomes, and thenTom Moriarty: 00:22:46trying to help facilitate that through learning. Rather thanTom Moriarty: 00:22:51making learning or a learning measurable, the outcome, noTom Moriarty: 00:22:55focus on the business outcome, that that stakeholder thatTom Moriarty: 00:22:58you're supporting is trying to achieve. And then help themTom Moriarty: 00:23:00understand how you can facilitate help facilitate thatTom Moriarty: 00:23:04outcome through learning. Am I hearing you correctly there?JD Dillon: 00:23:09Yes, and I think the most important thing we can doJD Dillon: 00:23:12nowadays as L&D, it's less about content and the things we make,JD Dillon: 00:23:17and it's more about the channels that we can enable the way thatJD Dillon: 00:23:21we can help the people who have information or the people whoJD Dillon: 00:23:24know, reach the people who need it. Because the priority todayJD Dillon: 00:23:30is unlikely to be the priority six months from now. AndJD Dillon: 00:23:33unlikely to be the priority 12 months from that, right? It's aJD Dillon: 00:23:36constant. The priorities within an organization are movingJD Dillon: 00:23:39target. And as a result, the knowledge and skill developmentJD Dillon: 00:23:42requirements for the workforce is equally a moving target. Yes,JD Dillon: 00:23:46there are certain things that are consistent, right, workplaceJD Dillon: 00:23:48safety being one of them, right, that's a constant priority thatJD Dillon: 00:23:51we're always going to address. But how can we instead ofJD Dillon: 00:23:53worrying about things from a programmatic perspective, right?JD Dillon: 00:23:56Like, how do we structure perfect programs, so people goJD Dillon: 00:23:59from A to Z, and that's what we're gonna manage? Right? ThatJD Dillon: 00:24:02just kind of puts us in this constant tailspin of updating,JD Dillon: 00:24:06updating new thing, add, add, add, and then the program thatJD Dillon: 00:24:09was really nice in the beginning. Now, it's kind ofJD Dillon: 00:24:11this mess, because you had to add 50 different things alongJD Dillon: 00:24:14the way, because new stakeholder, this lawyer, thisJD Dillon: 00:24:16new stakeholder, change new business already, yeah. SoJD Dillon: 00:24:19instead of starting their back out and say, okay, so what areJD Dillon: 00:24:23the channels that we can use? Right? If if the executive teamJD Dillon: 00:24:27needs to reach the frontline with timely message? Can we helpJD Dillon: 00:24:30enable that channel? Right, because that channel alreadyJD Dillon: 00:24:33exists in the corporate workforce? It's Microsoft Teams,JD Dillon: 00:24:35or its slack or its email. When that channel doesn't exist? HowJD Dillon: 00:24:38can this message a message get to the frontline? If we need toJD Dillon: 00:24:41deploy skill update training, or we need to deploy product updateJD Dillon: 00:24:45training from the product team? What are the delivery methodsJD Dillon: 00:24:49that fit into each of our audiences realities? And how canJD Dillon: 00:24:53we enable those channels whether it's installing the rightJD Dillon: 00:24:57technology, looking at different types of content? metJD Dillon: 00:25:00methodologies talking about things like micro learning, soJD Dillon: 00:25:03that people know how we can reach these different audiences,JD Dillon: 00:25:07right, these channels are there, and different teams can useJD Dillon: 00:25:10them. And then we get involved when it's the right project. SoJD Dillon: 00:25:13when it requires instructional design, right, when there'sJD Dillon: 00:25:16complexity involved in terms of what people have to learn, andJD Dillon: 00:25:20the fact that they have to kind of practice and retainJD Dillon: 00:25:22information, when we have to pull out our bag of tricks,JD Dillon: 00:25:24we're available to do that. But instead of trying to always beJD Dillon: 00:25:27the middle person, in the story, we focus our limited resourcesJD Dillon: 00:25:31and capacity on the right projects. And then we enableJD Dillon: 00:25:35others to step in and say it's okay, if the subject matterJD Dillon: 00:25:38expert builds content, and deploys it to the audience. ButJD Dillon: 00:25:41what we don't want happening is every subject matter expert,JD Dillon: 00:25:44putting together the worst PowerPoints you've ever seen,JD Dillon: 00:25:47and then just tossing them over the fence at the same time atJD Dillon: 00:25:50the same person who can't sit there and figure this out.JD Dillon: 00:25:53Because none of this is designed to help them, right, everyone'sJD Dillon: 00:25:56got their own priorities, and they're hitting the sameJD Dillon: 00:25:58employee with them. And that employee has already got way tooJD Dillon: 00:26:00much to do. We can protect that experience by establishingJD Dillon: 00:26:05better channels and working with our stakeholders to say this isJD Dillon: 00:26:08the best way we can enable this person, this is the way to reachJD Dillon: 00:26:10them. We'll even... a lot of... in my past roles, a lot of myJD Dillon: 00:26:13capacity was put on training subject matter experts to writeJD Dillon: 00:26:18certain types of content to put together a video that was goingJD Dillon: 00:26:21to be delivered towards the audience so that we'reJD Dillon: 00:26:23protecting the limited attention, the limited capacityJD Dillon: 00:26:27of the of the employee audience, and enabling people to haveJD Dillon: 00:26:31information to reach them when they need to. And then only whenJD Dillon: 00:26:34we have to get involved from a structured training perspective,JD Dillon: 00:26:37do we build content and resources and activities becauseJD Dillon: 00:26:41we can't tackle every challenge at the speed that thingsJD Dillon: 00:26:46currently move. So we have to resource accordingly, which isJD Dillon: 00:26:50why I think in a lot of cases, we have to put the channels inJD Dillon: 00:26:52place, get out of the way, and then step in and support whenJD Dillon: 00:26:54it's the right thing to do.Tom Moriarty: 00:26:58JD those are some great takeaways. I think thatTom Moriarty: 00:27:00that also offers a great segue to another area that I want to ITom Moriarty: 00:27:03want to dig into but I think, you know, hopefully, theTom Moriarty: 00:27:05audience got a lot from that. I think there's a lot of valuableTom Moriarty: 00:27:09insight as it relates to stakeholder management, and, youTom Moriarty: 00:27:12know, getting the right focus for the role of learning andTom Moriarty: 00:27:16development in the organization, especially because allTom Moriarty: 00:27:18organizations as you, as you well put are always gonna haveTom Moriarty: 00:27:21moving targets the goals, the goalposts, it's, it's it's notTom Moriarty: 00:27:24in the same place. So not as easy as a, you know, a soccerTom Moriarty: 00:27:27game or a football game where you know, it's 100 yards away,Tom Moriarty: 00:27:29and it's not going anywhere. That's that's not how it worksTom Moriarty: 00:27:31business today. You mentioned something earlier, you know, youTom Moriarty: 00:27:36talked about the challenge of it when you enable differentTom Moriarty: 00:27:39subject matter experts, and the potential challenge of everyTom Moriarty: 00:27:43single subject matter expert in your organization, creatingTom Moriarty: 00:27:46their own beautiful, lovely PowerPoint, and driving it downTom Moriarty: 00:27:51the throat of the the frontline worker or the frontline learnerTom Moriarty: 00:27:54all at the same time. Right. Yeah. And you mentioned earlierTom Moriarty: 00:27:58that those same employees, as you will put are very timeTom Moriarty: 00:28:02limited, right, the amount of time that they have. And,Tom Moriarty: 00:28:07frankly, maybe even desire that they have to focus their energyTom Moriarty: 00:28:11on learning or developing a Skill versus just completingTom Moriarty: 00:28:16their tasks and getting out the door is really limited. So howTom Moriarty: 00:28:21does the Learning and Development ProfessionalTom Moriarty: 00:28:23navigate that? What do they do to get learner buy in to getTom Moriarty: 00:28:27that audience truly engaged and participating in in the trainingTom Moriarty: 00:28:33that they're offering, whether it be through subject matterTom Moriarty: 00:28:35experts or something that I'm facilitating directly?JD Dillon: 00:28:38The biggest key is relevance. So for as Axonify,JD Dillon: 00:28:42for example, what we do is we asked frontline employees to logJD Dillon: 00:28:47into Axonify for maybe five minutes, every shift. That is aJD Dillon: 00:28:52big ask, we know that is a big ask when they have so much toJD Dillon: 00:28:55do, especially in a limited staffing environment. And likeJD Dillon: 00:28:58you said, people have different priorities, different goalsJD Dillon: 00:29:00different, they're there for different reasons. So in orderJD Dillon: 00:29:03for that five minutes to matter, that five minutes has to beJD Dillon: 00:29:08relevant to me, the employee, I have to get something's gonnaJD Dillon: 00:29:11help me. And no matter why someone is there, I firmlyJD Dillon: 00:29:15believe... and and having a background in operationalJD Dillon: 00:29:18management helps me make statements like this... IJD Dillon: 00:29:20believe everyone wants to do a good job. I don't believeJD Dillon: 00:29:23everyone wants to make a career at this, right? They don'tJD Dillon: 00:29:25necessarily want to be with your company for 25 years. However,JD Dillon: 00:29:28today, they want to do good job, they want to be safe, they wantJD Dillon: 00:29:31to get hurt. They don't want a customer to yell at them. TheyJD Dillon: 00:29:33want to be able to answer the question, right? They want toJD Dillon: 00:29:35feel good about that. So if that five minutes can be spentJD Dillon: 00:29:40helping someone feel better about their ability to do theJD Dillon: 00:29:43job, helping them feel more confident, helping them feelJD Dillon: 00:29:46like they're clued in, they have the information or helping themJD Dillon: 00:29:49feel like if they are interested in pursuing other avenues andJD Dillon: 00:29:53opportunities that they have. They're being invested in, rightJD Dillon: 00:29:56that learning how to do the job better and building new skillsJD Dillon: 00:29:59and knowledge is part of this. And maybe it's not in a lot ofJD Dillon: 00:30:03other jobs or other jobs they've had in the past. And it'sJD Dillon: 00:30:05actually a factor that contributes to them wanting toJD Dillon: 00:30:08stay and do a good job in this organization. So it begins withJD Dillon: 00:30:12relevance that every time someone accesses learningJD Dillon: 00:30:15resources, every time someone logs into the learning platform,JD Dillon: 00:30:19they get what's useful to them. Not what everyone got, becauseJD Dillon: 00:30:22well, that's what was sent out today, or someone requiredJD Dillon: 00:30:25everyone to take the training. And that's where things areJD Dillon: 00:30:28concepts like adaptive learning, personalization, data andJD Dillon: 00:30:31measurement, all of that comes into play, because technologyJD Dillon: 00:30:34does allow us to figure out, you know, for you today, what's theJD Dillon: 00:30:38best thing that we can work on with you today, as opposed toJD Dillon: 00:30:41the person next to you, maybe has a different area of need, orJD Dillon: 00:30:44different interest. So we're gonna focus on somethingJD Dillon: 00:30:46different with that individual, even though you do the same job,JD Dillon: 00:30:50we want to make sure that training is hyper relevant toJD Dillon: 00:30:52you, so that every time you come back, you get something useful,JD Dillon: 00:30:55and you say, this is worth my time. It's not just something myJD Dillon: 00:30:58manager asked me to do, and definitely not doing it becauseJD Dillon: 00:31:01some L&D person I've never met asked me to do it, right. It'sJD Dillon: 00:31:04something that's helping me. And then on top of that, you canJD Dillon: 00:31:07layer in additional tactics, especially from the beginning,JD Dillon: 00:31:10because the idea of relevance and value-add is very muchJD Dillon: 00:31:13intrinsic motivation, right, we want people to do the thing,JD Dillon: 00:31:15because they want to do the thing, not because I asked themJD Dillon: 00:31:18to or told them to, or because I tricked them into doing it,JD Dillon: 00:31:21right. We want learning to be something people are invested inJD Dillon: 00:31:24and own themselves. And that comes from relevance. But at theJD Dillon: 00:31:28same time, sometimes you have to get that attention, or findJD Dillon: 00:31:31other ways to start building the habit. Because one of the thingsJD Dillon: 00:31:34we talked about it exemplifies building a habit of everydayJD Dillon: 00:31:36learning, making something that creating an experience thatJD Dillon: 00:31:39people can complete once a shift, and it becomes just, it'sJD Dillon: 00:31:43not something you got to ask about. It's just something youJD Dillon: 00:31:45do. Like all the other things you do at your your job everyJD Dillon: 00:31:48day, it's just part of the job, right? So how do you establishJD Dillon: 00:31:53that for people who maybe haven't ever thought aboutJD Dillon: 00:31:56workplace training that way, maybe in their previous jobsJD Dillon: 00:32:00training was once a quarter, they put me in a room and theyJD Dillon: 00:32:02tell me all the stuff, and no one actually learned or I haveJD Dillon: 00:32:04to sit in the back room for multiple days in onboarding andJD Dillon: 00:32:07after onboarding, I don't really get much when it comes toJD Dillon: 00:32:09development activity. Or maybe this is my first job. And IJD Dillon: 00:32:14think learning looks like school. Right? Because school,JD Dillon: 00:32:18you go to a class for a period of time, and it's over andJD Dillon: 00:32:22you're done learning that, that doesn't look like workplaceJD Dillon: 00:32:26learning, especially to me. So how do we get people out of thatJD Dillon: 00:32:29mode of learning is a place and a time to learning is aJD Dillon: 00:32:32continuous habit and activity. That's where tactics likeJD Dillon: 00:32:36gamification come in. So it's about layering in theseJD Dillon: 00:32:39different mechanics and understanding your workplaceJD Dillon: 00:32:41culture and the people you're supporting. So you can craft anJD Dillon: 00:32:44experience that makes sense for your audience and your workJD Dillon: 00:32:47environment, and then use these types of mechanics and and anJD Dillon: 00:32:51experience that's simple and straightforward, right? So it'sJD Dillon: 00:32:53not hard for people to find it. It's not hard for people to getJD Dillon: 00:32:57to content. I once asked my team in a previous job, how manyJD Dillon: 00:33:01clicks does it take to play a video in our learning managementJD Dillon: 00:33:04system? And the answer was seven. And I said, how manyJD Dillon: 00:33:07clicks does it take to play a YouTube video? One? What do youJD Dillon: 00:33:11think's going to happen here? Right, we're being judged at theJD Dillon: 00:33:14bar of consumer technology, not just workplace technology. So ifJD Dillon: 00:33:18you craft an experience, that's easy to get to, right in theJD Dillon: 00:33:23flow of work, if I'm holding a device as part of my job, can IJD Dillon: 00:33:26get to my resources on this device, rather than having toJD Dillon: 00:33:29put this device down and go to a place I never go to in order toJD Dillon: 00:33:33experience training? Right? We've already lost in thatJD Dillon: 00:33:36scenario. So is it easy to get to is easy to understand, right?JD Dillon: 00:33:40I have to click through a bunch of menus or click through aJD Dillon: 00:33:42bunch of websites that I don't know, in order to get where IJD Dillon: 00:33:45need to go. And then when I'm there? Is it an engagingJD Dillon: 00:33:48experience that may again, bring me back for different reasons,JD Dillon: 00:33:52because this is, dare I say, fun to do? Write every day? And thenJD Dillon: 00:33:57ultimately, is this helping me if every time I come into theJD Dillon: 00:34:01learning platform, it helps me remember something? It helps meJD Dillon: 00:34:05learn something new, it helps me? Oh, I didn't. I neverJD Dillon: 00:34:08thought about it that way. If you get that experience everyJD Dillon: 00:34:11day, then learning becomes part of work. So that's what it takesJD Dillon: 00:34:15to engage a large distributed workforce and a lot of cases aJD Dillon: 00:34:18workforce that L&D rarely physically sees, right? If youJD Dillon: 00:34:22have 75,000 employees and 40 people on your L&D team, youJD Dillon: 00:34:26never interact with most of your employees. But how do youJD Dillon: 00:34:29understand their day to day experience enough so that youJD Dillon: 00:34:32craft an experience that makes it feel like to that employee,JD Dillon: 00:34:36that the person who put this together understands me, what IJD Dillon: 00:34:40go through what my day to day looks like and what I need, andJD Dillon: 00:34:44the right combination of things like game mechanics, data, AI,JD Dillon: 00:34:48personalization, mobile technology, it's about bringingJD Dillon: 00:34:51all of the things we've been talking about often in isolationJD Dillon: 00:34:54for like, the last 10 years, bringing all of those piecesJD Dillon: 00:34:57together, because that's what it takes to put by that equitableJD Dillon: 00:35:00experience we're talking about. And it is unfortunately, moreJD Dillon: 00:35:04challenging for a distributed workforce that in large numbersJD Dillon: 00:35:07that work in different regions, different countries, like youJD Dillon: 00:35:11said, very time limited, those are a lot of meaningfulJD Dillon: 00:35:13challenges. But I've worked with organizations where we figuredJD Dillon: 00:35:17out how to provide an equitable experience to a person driving aJD Dillon: 00:35:21moped in a country that I've never been to as part of a rideJD Dillon: 00:35:25sharing service, where the person is carrying an AndroidJD Dillon: 00:35:28device that you can't buy on the on the internet, the only way toJD Dillon: 00:35:32test your application on that device is to eBay old devices,JD Dillon: 00:35:36they also don't necessarily have great internet connection, andJD Dillon: 00:35:39there is no Wi Fi on the back of the moped. So if you can figureJD Dillon: 00:35:42that out how to get that person relevant support that they'llJD Dillon: 00:35:46use every day, everything else suddenly gets a lot easier. SoJD Dillon: 00:35:50it's always interesting, when people will ask me and my team,JD Dillon: 00:35:53you know, we have limited bandwidth in our retail stores,JD Dillon: 00:35:55right? The bandwidth is all taken up by the point of saleJD Dillon: 00:35:57system, business processes, and whatnot like, and our elearningJD Dillon: 00:36:00always like buffers for like 10 minutes when people are tryingJD Dillon: 00:36:04to load it. Like, if we can reach someone via cell serviceJD Dillon: 00:36:09on an Android device is 10 years old, who's riding a motorcycleJD Dillon: 00:36:13in a country, none of us have been to, I think, I think I canJD Dillon: 00:36:16handle your retail store. It's making sure we can, we canJD Dillon: 00:36:20handle those types of environments. Because just youJD Dillon: 00:36:22know, I think the overall message is, it's possible, youJD Dillon: 00:36:25can reach everybody, it just requires the right amount ofJD Dillon: 00:36:29effort and investment. In order to make sure you're architectingJD Dillon: 00:36:31experiences that make sense for people and not expecting them toJD Dillon: 00:36:35come to you, we have to go to them. And that is now fullyJD Dillon: 00:36:39possible for different types of workers.Tom Moriarty: 00:36:43I love that there's, there's a lot there,Tom Moriarty: 00:36:45there's a lot to unpack. But I love that I love the thought.Tom Moriarty: 00:36:47First of all, I love the possibility in that example ofTom Moriarty: 00:36:50reaching the worker on Android device that you can only get onTom Moriarty: 00:36:55eBay on the back of a moped. And if you could do that, you know,Tom Moriarty: 00:36:59there's a lot that can be accomplished. And I love thatTom Moriarty: 00:37:01that's very, hopefully should be a very motivating message forTom Moriarty: 00:37:03the audience. I think that there's a lot of value in thatTom Moriarty: 00:37:08concept that you shared, of maybe start by focusing onTom Moriarty: 00:37:14making learning for the frontline employee a habit andTom Moriarty: 00:37:18start by having a clear focus on how do I accomplish that first.Tom Moriarty: 00:37:23And once I've accomplished that, then I can start to add levelsTom Moriarty: 00:37:27of complexity to what it is that they're learning, right. But ITom Moriarty: 00:37:30have to cross that bridge before I can even get to the secondTom Moriarty: 00:37:32bridge, to be able to make sure that you know the program or theTom Moriarty: 00:37:36content that I'm putting together ultimately, isTom Moriarty: 00:37:38something that's effective. I think that's... I think that'sTom Moriarty: 00:37:40really great. I guess to wrap up with a with a final question, ifTom Moriarty: 00:37:44there was one takeaway that you would hope, a learning andTom Moriarty: 00:37:47development team, let's say at a large retail organization withTom Moriarty: 00:37:52500 locations and frontline employees and a contact center,Tom Moriarty: 00:37:58you know, people working in a store, if there's one takeawayTom Moriarty: 00:38:01that you would want them to take from this conversation, and youTom Moriarty: 00:38:04could only pick one, what would that be?JD Dillon: 00:38:06It would be that you can accomplish a lot in fiveJD Dillon: 00:38:09minutes. Right? Five minutes does not sound like a lot andJD Dillon: 00:38:13learning and development, especially when we're used to,JD Dillon: 00:38:15like you said very complex products, right, very complexJD Dillon: 00:38:19training programs, onboarding experiences that take weeks, inJD Dillon: 00:38:23a lot of cases, any any backup to well, what can you reallyJD Dillon: 00:38:27learn in five minutes, you're not going to learn how to fly anJD Dillon: 00:38:29airplane in five minutes. I completely agree. Right? I'm notJD Dillon: 00:38:32saying it's only five minutes, the only only version ofJD Dillon: 00:38:35training we ever do an example of frontline employees. In aJD Dillon: 00:38:39retail environment, there's a lot of hands on training, right?JD Dillon: 00:38:41There's a lot of peer to peer training, manager led trainingJD Dillon: 00:38:43where you are physically doing the job. And that's a huge partJD Dillon: 00:38:47of the story. None of that goes away. But like you said, whenJD Dillon: 00:38:50it's grounded on this foundation, that we're going toJD Dillon: 00:38:54help incrementally improve people's knowledge, we're goingJD Dillon: 00:38:56to reinforce people's knowledge that there is some thing aboutJD Dillon: 00:39:01learning that is built into the workflow, whether it's a pushJD Dillon: 00:39:05experience that I get, you know, push that right fit activity,JD Dillon: 00:39:08I'm going to focus on today, whether it's I can use myJD Dillon: 00:39:10handheld device to pull up information when I need to whenJD Dillon: 00:39:13I need to solve a problem. When we embed the experience ofJD Dillon: 00:39:17learning into the day in this way. It changes the way you talkJD Dillon: 00:39:22about workplace learning, it changes the way that you valueJD Dillon: 00:39:26these ideas, because you're opening up this channel that youJD Dillon: 00:39:29can then and building this habit that you can leverage as thingsJD Dillon: 00:39:33change. So instead of having to try to get people's attentionJD Dillon: 00:39:36every time there's a new program every time you want to trainJD Dillon: 00:39:39them on something new and you got to go through the rigmaroleJD Dillon: 00:39:42of how are we going to schedule people? Right, can we how longJD Dillon: 00:39:45is it going to take we got to make a spreadsheet so we canJD Dillon: 00:39:48send out to the managers of the people who are delinquent so weJD Dillon: 00:39:50can make sure we get 100% Right? All of that starts to becomeJD Dillon: 00:39:54less and less of a burden. When you think about how can we buildJD Dillon: 00:39:58that habit to say, So what are you going to do for five minutesJD Dillon: 00:40:01a day? And the other thing that I didn't mention before, is thatJD Dillon: 00:40:05when you think about learning in terms of minutes, instead ofJD Dillon: 00:40:07programs, you're actually closer to how learning really works.JD Dillon: 00:40:11Because you can create a great two hour online course, it canJD Dillon: 00:40:14be the most dynamic and engaging piece of content you've everJD Dillon: 00:40:17seen. People are not going to remember most of it, right?JD Dillon: 00:40:20Unless they immediately walk out the door and start applying thatJD Dillon: 00:40:23information. And that drives retention. Right? Great. If youJD Dillon: 00:40:27can deliver it at the moment of need. That way, we usually don'tJD Dillon: 00:40:30have that luxury, especially at the scale of trying to supportJD Dillon: 00:40:33400,000 People who are all in very different places, when itJD Dillon: 00:40:36comes to their development. And when they're going to maybe dealJD Dillon: 00:40:39with a particular customer objection, or they're going toJD Dillon: 00:40:41handle a particular product or try to upsell a particularJD Dillon: 00:40:44thing, right. It's all very unpredictable in that way. SoJD Dillon: 00:40:48when you distill it back down to say, instead of trying to hitJD Dillon: 00:40:52everyone with a firehose of content, because I can onlyJD Dillon: 00:40:55access them once in a while. Instead, if I can reach peopleJD Dillon: 00:40:58for five minutes a day or five minutes a shift, I canJD Dillon: 00:41:01incrementally grow their knowledge, right, I can say,JD Dillon: 00:41:04we're going to focus on the foundational pieces, and thenJD Dillon: 00:41:06you might accelerate in that five minutes a day much fasterJD Dillon: 00:41:09than the other person next to you. And we're going to spendJD Dillon: 00:41:11some more time on the foundation with that person. But here,JD Dillon: 00:41:14we're gonna accelerate you forward towards additionalJD Dillon: 00:41:16information towards new skills that might help you pursueJD Dillon: 00:41:19additional opportunities. But when it's when it's grounded inJD Dillon: 00:41:22five minutes a day learning becomes a habit, learningJD Dillon: 00:41:25becomes part of the culture.Tom Moriarty: 00:41:27I love that I think that's a great takeaway. ITom Moriarty: 00:41:28really liked that. And the other statement that you made that ITom Moriarty: 00:41:31think that sums up well to is think of learning in minutes,Tom Moriarty: 00:41:34not in programs. That that's that's a fantastic takeaway.Tom Moriarty: 00:41:37And, you know, I think it's one that, you know, hopefully theTom Moriarty: 00:41:39audience can absolutely use for the frontline employee. ButTom Moriarty: 00:41:42frankly, I think any, anybody that's receiving learning, andTom Moriarty: 00:41:45you're right, that it works in in time, not in, not in programsTom Moriarty: 00:41:49or courses. JD, thank you so much for your for your time.Tom Moriarty: 00:41:54This has been a fantastic conversation. I think it's beenTom Moriarty: 00:41:57very enjoyable. I'm sure the audience has pages and pages andTom Moriarty: 00:42:00notes I know I do. If anybody in the audience wants to hear moreTom Moriarty: 00:42:05about what you are doing or what Axonify is doing, or get more ofTom Moriarty: 00:42:08the valuable content and information that you shared,Tom Moriarty: 00:42:11where can they find you?JD Dillon: 00:42:13Sure, you can find out more about AxonifyJD Dillon: 00:42:14axonify.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, just search JD Dylan,JD Dillon: 00:42:19there's only one I in my last name, despite what everyoneJD Dillon: 00:42:22seems to believe. And then also, I'd recommend that every twoJD Dillon: 00:42:27weeks on Wednesdays at: 1130 JD Dillon: 00:42:31stream with Axonify where we bring on smart people fromJD Dillon: 00:42:35across the industry and 25 minutes or less, I ask fiveJD Dillon: 00:42:38questions about a very pointed part of the story of workplaceJD Dillon: 00:42:42learning and experience. We talk about things like retailJD Dillon: 00:42:45transformation, we're talking about games and learning withJD Dillon: 00:42:47Karl, we're going to talk about the skills story with DaniJD Dillon: 00:42:50Johnson from RedThread. So I urge people if you want to digJD Dillon: 00:42:53into more of these types of themes, check out our LinkedInJD Dillon: 00:42:56that's every other Wednesday: 11:30JD Dillon: 00:43:00And you'll see plenty of from me on LinkedIn sharing, whenJD Dillon: 00:43:03upcoming episodes will be airing. And you can find it allJD Dillon: 00:43:06of our recorded episodes are on YouTube as well. So if you go toJD Dillon: 00:43:08Axonify, his YouTube channel, you can check out our pastJD Dillon: 00:43:11episodes.Tom Moriarty: 00:43:11Well, thank you so much. JD, I really appreciateTom Moriarty: 00:43:14your time. This is a very enjoyable and informativeTom Moriarty: 00:43:18conversation for me. So I really appreciate and I know ourTom Moriarty: 00:43:21audience well. Thanks so much and have a great rest of yourTom Moriarty: 00:43:24day.JD Dillon: 00:43:25Bye, everybody.Tom Moriarty: 00:43:26The Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo,Tom Moriarty: 00:43:28the better way to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk ofTom Moriarty: 00:43:31the Trade, for tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders.Tom Moriarty: 00:43:35Visit www.mimeo.com for more information.