Hybrid Learning: The Secret to Enabling Frontline Employees JD Dillon, Chief Learning Architect at Axonify, defines hybrid learning with one word: equity. Tune in for his take on what hybrid learning is and how it is your secret to enabling (and keeping) frontline employees. TranscriptTom Moriarty: 00:00:01 Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of Tom Moriarty: 00:00:03 Success! In this not-so-secret […] JD Dillon, Chief Learning Architect at Axonify, defines hybrid learning with one word: equity. Tune in for his take on what hybrid learning is and how it is your secret to enabling (and keeping) frontline employees. TranscriptTom Moriarty: 00:00:01 Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of Tom Moriarty: 00:00:03 Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&D Tom Moriarty: 00:00:07 changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporate Tom Moriarty: 00:00:10 environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that from Tom Moriarty: 00:00:14 their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to make Tom Moriarty: 00:00:17 yourself, your people and your organization's more successful. Tom Moriarty: 00:00:21 In this first season, we're exploring topic of hybrid learning: 00:00:24 what that means at different organizations, why it learning: 00:00:27 is increasingly important, and how L&D leaders can invest in learning: 00:00:30 the right resources to best leverage it. In this episode, learning: 00:00:35 we're focusing on delivering hybrid learning to frontline learning: 00:00:37 employees to discuss what that means and how to do it well. learning: 00:00:40 We've invited JD Dillon, Chief Learning Architect at Axonify to learning: 00:00:44 join the conversation. Welcome, JD. JD Dillon: 00:00:46 Hi, everybody. Tom Moriarty: 00:00:47 JD, I know you've got vast experience in the L&D Tom Moriarty: 00:00:51 world, but but for our listeners who might be get to know you for Tom Moriarty: 00:00:53 the first time through this podcast, why don't you tell us a Tom Moriarty: 00:00:56 little bit about your background? JD Dillon: 00:00:58 Sure, I've been doing this for 20 odd years at this JD Dillon: 00:01:01 point. By "this" I mean a blend of corporate operations JD Dillon: 00:01:04 management and learning and development roles. So the bulk JD Dillon: 00:01:08 of my career was really split between three different JD Dillon: 00:01:11 organizations. So I spent 10 years with the Walt Disney JD Dillon: 00:01:13 Company, which is why I live in Orlando, Florida, and I can hear JD Dillon: 00:01:18 the Magic Kingdom. So if anyone wonders exactly how close am I JD Dillon: 00:01:21 to Disney, I can, especially at night, I can hear the Magic JD Dillon: 00:01:24 Kingdom. So I spent 10 years in various different types of roles JD Dillon: 00:01:27 doing some wacky stuff at Disney, including workplace JD Dillon: 00:01:31 learning and development roles, supporting cast members across JD Dillon: 00:01:34 the resort, so about 65,000 ish people. And then I went to JD Dillon: 00:01:38 Kaplan, the world's largest education company, where I was JD Dillon: 00:01:41 director of learning technology and development. So I handled JD Dillon: 00:01:43 our technology stack, our instructional design and content JD Dillon: 00:01:46 practices and that type of stuff. And then about six ish JD Dillon: 00:01:49 years ago, at this point, little over six years, I went across JD Dillon: 00:01:52 the street to the provider side of the equation in learning and JD Dillon: 00:01:56 development and joined Axonify. I was actually a customer of JD Dillon: 00:01:58 Axonify. When I was at Kaplan, I was a customer number seven. So JD Dillon: 00:02:02 I got to know the team early on, and then formally joined as JD Dillon: 00:02:05 Chief Learning Architect a little over six years ago. And JD Dillon: 00:02:07 now I basically spend a lot of my time in the learning and JD Dillon: 00:02:11 performance space, talking to people understanding what JD Dillon: 00:02:14 challenges they're facing, how they're overcoming those JD Dillon: 00:02:16 challenges, and then connecting the dots to what we do at JD Dillon: 00:02:19 Axonify to improve our technology, our content, our JD Dillon: 00:02:22 services, and our and our messaging so we can help JD Dillon: 00:02:25 especially frontline employees around the world in spaces like JD Dillon: 00:02:28 retail, grocery manufacturing, contact centers, finance and JD Dillon: 00:02:31 insurance do their best work every day. And that's why I do JD Dillon: 00:02:35 what I do. Tom Moriarty: 00:02:36 That's awesome. JD, thanks for the intro in the Tom Moriarty: 00:02:39 background. And obviously, we've got an expert on our hands here. Tom Moriarty: 00:02:42 So look, really looking forward to digging into the Tom Moriarty: 00:02:44 conversation. Now that we've gotten to know you a little bit, Tom Moriarty: 00:02:47 I want to for the sake of the audience level set, a couple of Tom Moriarty: 00:02:51 terms definitions from your perspective of some key terms Tom Moriarty: 00:02:55 that we'll focus on throughout this conversation. So the first Tom Moriarty: 00:02:59 one is hybrid learning. What does that mean to you? JD Dillon: 00:03:05 To me, hybrid learning basically means equity, JD Dillon: 00:03:07 it means that it doesn't matter where I do my job, I get the JD Dillon: 00:03:11 support that I need to be able to do it as effectively as I JD Dillon: 00:03:14 can. So in a large organization, that dynamic company that has a JD Dillon: 00:03:19 global presence, and may have hundreds to 1000s of different JD Dillon: 00:03:23 job roles and people doing their jobs in very different ways. So JD Dillon: 00:03:26 one learning and development or HR function may be supporting JD Dillon: 00:03:30 audiences that include people like me, who... I'm sitting at a JD Dillon: 00:03:32 desk in front of an unnecessarily bright lighting JD Dillon: 00:03:35 panel right now, they may have to support me working from home. JD Dillon: 00:03:39 Simultaneously, maybe you support workers who are in on JD Dillon: 00:03:42 the manufacturing line, you may support traveling salespeople, JD Dillon: 00:03:45 you may support people who are frontline in a retail like JD Dillon: 00:03:48 environment. And in a true hybrid learning scenario, if JD Dillon: 00:03:51 we're really accomplishing what the term hybrid learning means, JD Dillon: 00:03:55 it means all of those people get the right support. They don't JD Dillon: 00:03:58 get the same support, right, because the same support does JD Dillon: 00:04:02 not support all of those different people because they do JD Dillon: 00:04:06 their jobs very differently. So in order to accomplish what we JD Dillon: 00:04:09 talked about in terms of a hybrid learning strategy, JD Dillon: 00:04:12 everyone in the organization needs to have equitable access JD Dillon: 00:04:15 to learning and support resources so they can do their JD Dillon: 00:04:18 best work, regardless of how that work is done. Tom Moriarty: 00:04:21 That's great. Thank you. That was a very Tom Moriarty: 00:04:23 thorough definition. I really like the term equity, and the Tom Moriarty: 00:04:27 focus on the equitable distribution of learning Tom Moriarty: 00:04:31 resources to all employees. I think that's a that's a really Tom Moriarty: 00:04:34 good takeaway. I'm sure it's something we'll come back to Tom Moriarty: 00:04:36 throughout the conversation. For our conversation based on your Tom Moriarty: 00:04:41 focus Axonify and what you guys do, we're going to focus Tom Moriarty: 00:04:44 specifically on delivering hybrid learning to a frontline Tom Moriarty: 00:04:48 employee. So to make sure, I think, to very commonly used Tom Moriarty: 00:04:52 term especially in the last 24 to 36 months, given everything Tom Moriarty: 00:04:57 that's been going on, but could you quickly defined, what would Tom Moriarty: 00:05:01 you see as a frontline employee? JD Dillon: 00:05:04 The simplest way I tend to break it down is it's JD Dillon: 00:05:06 the people who are directly interacting with the company's JD Dillon: 00:05:08 customers and or products and services. So, from a consumer JD Dillon: 00:05:13 perspective, it's the people you talk to. So when you go to the JD Dillon: 00:05:15 grocery store, it's the it's the clerks that you interact with, JD Dillon: 00:05:18 the person who slices your deli meat, the person who checks you JD Dillon: 00:05:21 out at the cash register, the person who may be brings your JD Dillon: 00:05:23 groceries to the curb, to fulfill your online order, it JD Dillon: 00:05:27 may be the person who is dropping off the package that JD Dillon: 00:05:29 you ordered online. And as a delivery driver, it may be the JD Dillon: 00:05:32 person who packed that package in a logistics distribution JD Dillon: 00:05:36 center or warehouse, or the person who was on the JD Dillon: 00:05:39 manufacturing line putting that package together, or that JD Dillon: 00:05:41 product together. So it's the people who are most directly JD Dillon: 00:05:45 facing the customer side of the business. So the contact center JD Dillon: 00:05:49 agent, the people who we interact with, and when you do JD Dillon: 00:05:51 the math, roughly speaking, it represents about 80% of the JD Dillon: 00:05:55 global workforce. Because when you think of large JD Dillon: 00:05:59 organizations, like a retailer, as an example, a retailer may JD Dillon: 00:06:02 have, let's say 600 locations, and they have, you know, maybe JD Dillon: 00:06:09 1000 people in the corporate team, but they have 30,000 JD Dillon: 00:06:12 people on the frontline team, right? So it's it's the larger JD Dillon: 00:06:16 chunk of the global workforce. And unfortunately, it's also the JD Dillon: 00:06:20 most underserved part of the workforce when it comes to JD Dillon: 00:06:23 learning and support practices. Tom Moriarty: 00:06:25 Sounds like a challenge, but also maybe an Tom Moriarty: 00:06:27 opportunity at the same time, right. That's great. Thank you. Tom Moriarty: 00:06:32 I think that that that will level set the stage for Tom Moriarty: 00:06:35 everybody. And I think that those definitions, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:06:38 where we're talking about the audience, in an organization Tom Moriarty: 00:06:42 that specifically directly interacting with the customer or Tom Moriarty: 00:06:45 the product, I think that's a great definition. And, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:06:49 for the context, this conversation, we're going to Tom Moriarty: 00:06:51 focus about how to make sure there's equity in the learning Tom Moriarty: 00:06:54 environment, so that those probably harder to reach Tom Moriarty: 00:06:58 physically, people in the organization, and as you well Tom Moriarty: 00:07:02 said, historically underserved people in the organization, how Tom Moriarty: 00:07:07 are how are they getting the proper learning so that we do Tom Moriarty: 00:07:09 have an equitable environment? So, you know, the world has had Tom Moriarty: 00:07:15 a lot going on in the last 24 to 36 months. I'd love to Tom Moriarty: 00:07:20 understand from your perspective, you've been working Tom Moriarty: 00:07:22 in that, you know, serving the frontline workers through Tom Moriarty: 00:07:26 Axonify, for well, before March 2020. How has that environment Tom Moriarty: 00:07:33 changed in the last 24 months that with all that's been going Tom Moriarty: 00:07:36 on in the world? JD Dillon: 00:07:38 So I think the first piece is to recognize the fact JD Dillon: 00:07:42 that businesses have realized the importance of the frontline JD Dillon: 00:07:46 workforce. I don't think anyone would have ever said frontline JD Dillon: 00:07:49 execution is not important to our business. But at the same JD Dillon: 00:07:52 time, I don't believe most organizations meaningfully JD Dillon: 00:07:55 prioritized that, which is why I said that they're often JD Dillon: 00:08:00 underserved when it comes to not just learning and support JD Dillon: 00:08:02 resources, but technology, broadly speaking, communication, JD Dillon: 00:08:06 rewards and recognition, right. A lot of strategies that are JD Dillon: 00:08:09 often applied in a corporate environment, or even in a remote JD Dillon: 00:08:12 environment, often have not hit the frontline workforce. So the JD Dillon: 00:08:16 fact that we relied on that team. So clearly, for the last JD Dillon: 00:08:21 couple of years, we've always relied on them. But we noticed JD Dillon: 00:08:24 the last couple of years, the consumers noticed and JD Dillon: 00:08:27 organizations noticed. And then organizations noticed when those JD Dillon: 00:08:32 people went missing. So right now everyone is having talent, JD Dillon: 00:08:36 retention and acquisition problems. And that's especially JD Dillon: 00:08:39 clear in frontline roles now that employees have options, JD Dillon: 00:08:44 where before it didn't high turnover didn't necessarily JD Dillon: 00:08:49 matter. Because there were people that were going to JD Dillon: 00:08:50 backfill those positions in a lot of people's minds. Today, JD Dillon: 00:08:53 finding those people is much more difficult because every JD Dillon: 00:08:56 retailer and restaurant and logistics operation is not only JD Dillon: 00:09:00 competing with Amazon, and not only competing against employers JD Dillon: 00:09:03 who are all raising their wages and their benefits, which are JD Dillon: 00:09:05 all positive things. But now they're also competing with JD Dillon: 00:09:09 remote work opportunities. And the fact that it's easier than JD Dillon: 00:09:12 ever for me to make a shift in direction when it comes to what JD Dillon: 00:09:16 I may want to do instead of going back to work in the JD Dillon: 00:09:18 restaurant that was closed for a while, I might not want to go JD Dillon: 00:09:21 back to that because now, circumstances have afforded me a JD Dillon: 00:09:25 decision. And I'm making a decision and taking JD Dillon: 00:09:27 opportunities that previously were not available to me. And JD Dillon: 00:09:30 then there's all you know, other considerations around number of JD Dillon: 00:09:32 people who retired out of the frontline workforce. So overall, JD Dillon: 00:09:36 I think organizations have now recognized how just challenging JD Dillon: 00:09:39 it is to run your business, not only when you're short staffed JD Dillon: 00:09:42 on the front line, but when you also don't have the right JD Dillon: 00:09:44 capability, the right skills on the front line, because before JD Dillon: 00:09:49 you may have been hiring in people who had some retail JD Dillon: 00:09:51 background to backfill people who are returning out in those JD Dillon: 00:09:54 environments. Now it's hard to find people who have that JD Dillon: 00:09:56 experience who are coming through the door with certain JD Dillon: 00:09:58 knowledge and skills So now we have to look at, well, how do we JD Dillon: 00:10:02 not only close gaps within the operation so we can keep doors JD Dillon: 00:10:05 open, keep our stores open, as long as you want to make sure JD Dillon: 00:10:08 our specialty departments are open, make sure we're able to JD Dillon: 00:10:10 provide a differentiated customer experience that brings JD Dillon: 00:10:12 people back. So they don't always go online or they go JD Dillon: 00:10:15 online to your channels. But how do we get people up to speed JD Dillon: 00:10:20 quickly, and replace some of that knowledge that walked out JD Dillon: 00:10:24 the door when turnover happened out of circumstance over the JD Dillon: 00:10:27 last two years. So I think those those factors, and then the JD Dillon: 00:10:30 nature of how that frontline work is done has also shifted JD Dillon: 00:10:35 considerably. And everyone says things like, you know, the last JD Dillon: 00:10:38 few years have actually accelerated this 10 plus years JD Dillon: 00:10:40 when it comes to things like digital transformation, and that JD Dillon: 00:10:42 type of stuff. And that's true on the frontline as well, where JD Dillon: 00:10:45 I think the concept of digital transformation has lagged, you JD Dillon: 00:10:48 know, where people like us have were zooming before 2020. And JD Dillon: 00:10:53 now we are heavily zoomed. In frontline employees often didn't JD Dillon: 00:10:58 see the same type of technology investment or didn't see the JD Dillon: 00:11:00 same type of impact of their work. But now more employees JD Dillon: 00:11:04 than ever carrying around handheld devices, because JD Dillon: 00:11:07 they're fulfilling online orders and interacting directly with JD Dillon: 00:11:09 customers via chat applications. More and more organizations JD Dillon: 00:11:12 starting to recognize the potential for Bring Your Own JD Dillon: 00:11:14 Device strategies. And a lot of that red tape is starting to JD Dillon: 00:11:17 fall away that the technology environment around the frontline JD Dillon: 00:11:21 workforce has shifted out of necessity, over the past couple JD Dillon: 00:11:24 of years, which has accelerated that that teams need to be able JD Dillon: 00:11:29 to have those types of skills be able to leverage technology in JD Dillon: 00:11:32 their work in ways that were, I'd say more progressive on the JD Dillon: 00:11:36 corporate side before the last few years. And now they've JD Dillon: 00:11:38 caught up a bit when it comes to having a more digitally enabled JD Dillon: 00:11:42 day to day work experience. Tom Moriarty: 00:11:45 That's great. So what I'm hearing there, taking Tom Moriarty: 00:11:48 notes, as the some of the key takeaways and changes, I think Tom Moriarty: 00:11:51 first is that realization from the company perspective of the Tom Moriarty: 00:11:56 true importance, right, a real level of detail about the Tom Moriarty: 00:12:01 realization and the impact that the frontline has on each and Tom Moriarty: 00:12:04 every organization that has a large frontline employees staff, Tom Moriarty: 00:12:09 the second being the really competitive work environment, Tom Moriarty: 00:12:13 right, a competitive labor environment at the end of the Tom Moriarty: 00:12:14 day that that has created significant business challenges Tom Moriarty: 00:12:18 for the businesses with a high amount of frontline employees. Tom Moriarty: 00:12:21 And then the third being the technological changes for Tom Moriarty: 00:12:25 frontline plays, and changes in either business strategy or Tom Moriarty: 00:12:28 support for those employees as it relates to access for Tom Moriarty: 00:12:33 technology. So obviously, those are three big pillars of change Tom Moriarty: 00:12:37 there. I mean, how do those, you know, jumping into the learning Tom Moriarty: 00:12:40 side of things, you know, how has those three pillars affected Tom Moriarty: 00:12:46 how organizations go about delivering the skills and Tom Moriarty: 00:12:51 knowledge that those people need to get up to speed quickly? JD Dillon: 00:12:56 I'd say it has opened doors, because if you kind of JD Dillon: 00:12:58 take two considerations in mind, and how do you overcome these JD Dillon: 00:13:03 considerations, which is one, like we said, You've got to JD Dillon: 00:13:07 onboard people quickly, in a way that is going to set them up for JD Dillon: 00:13:13 success, make them feel confident their ability to do JD Dillon: 00:13:15 this job, and also make them feel good in the decision that JD Dillon: 00:13:17 they decided to work here. So if you are historically a company JD Dillon: 00:13:23 that might hire in a frontline employee, and then sit them in JD Dillon: 00:13:26 the back room for two days for click-next-to- continue JD Dillon: 00:13:29 elearning, because that's what someone said that they have to JD Dillon: 00:13:31 do, that employee might just leave, because they have another JD Dillon: 00:13:36 option. This is not the only chance they have to get a job JD Dillon: 00:13:40 that pays this amount with these types of benefits. And that's JD Dillon: 00:13:43 why in the past, especially in frontline employment, we often JD Dillon: 00:13:47 felt like the employee had to earn the right to work here, JD Dillon: 00:13:50 right, they earn the job, now the job has to earn the JD Dillon: 00:13:52 employee. So there's the factor that you can't just sit someone, JD Dillon: 00:13:57 like people don't have time, or the desire to do that version of JD Dillon: 00:14:02 training, whether it be onboarding or otherwise, plus JD Dillon: 00:14:05 operators don't have the time to afford for that. Because if I'm JD Dillon: 00:14:09 hiring people right now, it's because I need them right now. I JD Dillon: 00:14:12 don't need them two days from now. If I get them two days from JD Dillon: 00:14:14 now, I might not be able to open my entire operation today. JD Dillon: 00:14:18 Right? The restaurant might open not might not make day one. Yes, JD Dillon: 00:14:22 we might not have all our menu items might be limited, which is JD Dillon: 00:14:24 going to cut into my my profits and revenue. So so there is not JD Dillon: 00:14:29 an affordance to be able to do a lot of the traditional things we JD Dillon: 00:14:32 did when it came to tactics like longer courses, like putting JD Dillon: 00:14:35 people in a classroom, like the kind of just what traditional JD Dillon: 00:14:39 nature of workplace training looks like on the front line, JD Dillon: 00:14:42 and then merge that with that kind of digital transformation JD Dillon: 00:14:46 reality that technology piece, where in the last few years JD Dillon: 00:14:49 organizations recognized they can't reach their frontline JD Dillon: 00:14:53 teams with even simple messages, right. So when things started to JD Dillon: 00:14:56 change, there are a lot of executives out there who JD Dillon: 00:14:59 suddenly acknowledged, I can't talk to my staff. Right. And in JD Dillon: 00:15:03 order to get to my retail staff, I've got to send a message to JD Dillon: 00:15:07 corporate comms. And then they're gonna deploy a message JD Dillon: 00:15:09 via email to the store managers, and then those store managers JD Dillon: 00:15:12 may or may not deliver the desired message on time. And JD Dillon: 00:15:15 will they get everyone? Or will they only get people who were on JD Dillon: 00:15:17 shift today? What about the people who don't work this week? JD Dillon: 00:15:19 Right, all of those things just bubble up very quickly, as JD Dillon: 00:15:22 things started to change, people needed to keep people up to JD Dillon: 00:15:24 speed. And we're not necessarily talking about like learning and JD Dillon: 00:15:27 training, we're talking about baseline communication, quick JD Dillon: 00:15:30 updates, right, the things you need to know in order to be able JD Dillon: 00:15:32 to do your work today. So that realization, plus the fact that JD Dillon: 00:15:38 frontline work became more digital, and devices were JD Dillon: 00:15:41 suddenly more available than ever before, bring your own JD Dillon: 00:15:44 device became more acceptable, because people needed to reach JD Dillon: 00:15:48 their frontline teams to keep them up to date, what was going JD Dillon: 00:15:50 on, that created new opportunity. Because now L&D can JD Dillon: 00:15:55 reach the frontline. Where before to get to them, we had to JD Dillon: 00:15:58 go through that same game of telephone of do we send JD Dillon: 00:16:01 information to managers and managers deploy the training and JD Dillon: 00:16:04 teach people which they're not necessarily skilled in doing so. JD Dillon: 00:16:07 Or we've got to ask real nicely to be able to get people JD Dillon: 00:16:11 scheduled out of the operation for chunks of time, which before JD Dillon: 00:16:14 was hard, and now is impossible. But now, because a lot of that JD Dillon: 00:16:18 technology has opened up and someone's carrying a zebra JD Dillon: 00:16:21 device all day in in the hardware store, or they're able JD Dillon: 00:16:24 to use their own phone, or maybe the company's even deployed JD Dillon: 00:16:26 phones, we've seen personal devices deployed by frontline JD Dillon: 00:16:30 employers to employees, they're literally giving people phones JD Dillon: 00:16:33 in certain situations. That's a gateway for L&D to say, I can JD Dillon: 00:16:36 now reach the employee. But I have to rethink how I do that, JD Dillon: 00:16:41 or how I design content, how I design activities, how I design JD Dillon: 00:16:45 resources, because I have now a digital gateway to the front JD Dillon: 00:16:49 line to be able to get them information in the flow of work. JD Dillon: 00:16:53 But it needs to fit the flow of work. Because if my content JD Dillon: 00:16:57 library, and all my resources are built for a traditional JD Dillon: 00:17:00 delivery, where I've got the person in a back room for two JD Dillon: 00:17:03 days, even if it's great content, they're not going to do JD Dillon: 00:17:06 it. They've got five minutes, they've got 10 minutes, they've JD Dillon: 00:17:09 got the time between when they clock in and they have to hit JD Dillon: 00:17:12 their you know, get behind the specialty department. How do we JD Dillon: 00:17:15 use that time becomes the question mark. But the great JD Dillon: 00:17:18 thing is that the technology gives us new options that we JD Dillon: 00:17:21 didn't have before. When it comes to different types of JD Dillon: 00:17:25 content, modality different ways to leverage data, different ways JD Dillon: 00:17:28 to personalize the experience. So all of all of those things we JD Dillon: 00:17:32 used to talk about a lot with corporate employees around JD Dillon: 00:17:34 personalized adaptive learning, digital learning, all of these JD Dillon: 00:17:38 different types of things, all of those doors are now open for JD Dillon: 00:17:40 all employees. Because of the way work has changed the way JD Dillon: 00:17:44 prioritization has changed and that realization that I need to JD Dillon: 00:17:48 be able to reach my employees. And in order to you know, JD Dillon: 00:17:51 creating that connection point can be leveraged by more than JD Dillon: 00:17:54 just the communications team and executive team managers. It can JD Dillon: 00:17:57 be leveraged equally successfully by L&D. Tom Moriarty: 00:18:00 That's, that's great. There's a lot there Tom Moriarty: 00:18:02 sounds to me like this is likely based on the business dynamics Tom Moriarty: 00:18:06 you shared earlier, probably becoming a really significant Tom Moriarty: 00:18:09 priority for learning and development professionals with Tom Moriarty: 00:18:12 large frontline staff. JD Dillon: 00:18:15 100%. And I think it when we... That's why I keep JD Dillon: 00:18:18 coming back to the concept of equity, because we can't, we JD Dillon: 00:18:22 don't have to get rid of anything. I'm not saying you JD Dillon: 00:18:24 have to completely get rid of any practices that you're using JD Dillon: 00:18:26 today in order to provide an equitable experience, including JD Dillon: 00:18:29 frontline employees. It's more about a rethink. When you take a JD Dillon: 00:18:32 step back and say, what does the work look like? Right? What is JD Dillon: 00:18:37 the day to day work experience for the audience or audiences JD Dillon: 00:18:39 you support? And what does that persona of that workforce JD Dillon: 00:18:45 indicate? Or how does that direct how you adjust your JD Dillon: 00:18:49 support strategies, because there may be different audiences JD Dillon: 00:18:52 within your workforce that have similar personas. So you may JD Dillon: 00:18:55 have frontline retail employees in your audience, you may have JD Dillon: 00:18:58 contact center agents, and you may have corporate team members JD Dillon: 00:19:01 Support Center team members, some who work from home some who JD Dillon: 00:19:03 work in the office. Well, if you look at the contact center JD Dillon: 00:19:06 employee and the retail employee, their jobs are very JD Dillon: 00:19:08 different right one is sitting on the phone cannot get off the JD Dillon: 00:19:11 phone, be on the phone, you have to be on the phone. That's what JD Dillon: 00:19:14 contact center agents do. The retail employee has maybe JD Dillon: 00:19:17 working in a specialty store, maybe there's like four other JD Dillon: 00:19:19 people on shift with them regularly. They're customer JD Dillon: 00:19:22 facing, they're constantly stocking and restocking shelves, JD Dillon: 00:19:25 you know, right facing merchandise executing tasks JD Dillon: 00:19:29 assigned by corporate. So they don't have a ton of time either. JD Dillon: 00:19:32 But they've got a little bit more flexibility, but they're JD Dillon: 00:19:34 not in front of a computer and the contact center agent is but JD Dillon: 00:19:36 the commonality is the fact that they're very operationally JD Dillon: 00:19:39 focused, they've got minutes in their day, and you're not going JD Dillon: 00:19:41 to be able to schedule them out to attend a zoom session. Even JD Dillon: 00:19:44 though the contact center agents sitting in front of a webcam JD Dillon: 00:19:46 potentially getting their time is difficult. So when you see JD Dillon: 00:19:49 the similar similarities between personas, they might benefit JD Dillon: 00:19:53 from similar types of learning experiences, similar types of JD Dillon: 00:19:56 content design, where the person like me who's maybe the JD Dillon: 00:19:59 corporate employee, I can make decisions, right? I can say, I'm JD Dillon: 00:20:02 going to carve 30 minutes out of my schedule today, in order to JD Dillon: 00:20:05 complete an online course, in something that I am particularly JD Dillon: 00:20:08 interested in, but it's not maybe something that has been JD Dillon: 00:20:11 prioritized by the company. So no one assigned to me that JD Dillon: 00:20:13 training, right? On the frontline side in the context JD Dillon: 00:20:16 center example, they can't make the decision to say, I'm going JD Dillon: 00:20:18 to take 30 minutes today.It doesn't it doesn't exist. And if JD Dillon: 00:20:22 they go to their manager and say, I'd like time that managers JD Dillon: 00:20:24 got to find time, because they're measured based on call JD Dillon: 00:20:28 handling time, right? They need to make sure people are there to JD Dillon: 00:20:31 answer the phone when the phones are ringing. So we can take a JD Dillon: 00:20:35 lot of that dynamic out by looking at the personas that we JD Dillon: 00:20:39 support, and figuring out where are there commonalities where JD Dillon: 00:20:42 the same tools or tactics technologies may work across JD Dillon: 00:20:45 different audiences, but then where there's such differences JD Dillon: 00:20:48 in how people do their jobs, the time available, the tools they JD Dillon: 00:20:52 use, the devices they use, that requires a specific approach or JD Dillon: 00:20:56 a specific tool to meet that, and then help the people that we JD Dillon: 00:21:00 work with stakeholders, decision makers, it compliance and legal, JD Dillon: 00:21:05 like all of our friends, help them see those differences. So JD Dillon: 00:21:08 they understand why we might need to make investment in JD Dillon: 00:21:10 certain areas, or why the technology we use for the JD Dillon: 00:21:13 corporate team doesn't fit on the frontline, because it's just JD Dillon: 00:21:17 not how frontline employees engage, because of how they do JD Dillon: 00:21:21 their jobs every day. So rather than make it about learning, and JD Dillon: 00:21:24 which is what's a good learning strategy that's important to us, JD Dillon: 00:21:27 that's not necessarily top of mind, for a lot of other people. JD Dillon: 00:21:30 Make it about what the work experience is like for different JD Dillon: 00:21:34 people and different personas, and what we can do to help them JD Dillon: 00:21:38 achieve their goals. Because again, coming back to that JD Dillon: 00:21:40 earlier point, if if the specialty department, the JD Dillon: 00:21:44 product team, right, the marketing team, whoever is JD Dillon: 00:21:46 trying to change behavior, whoever is trying to accomplish JD Dillon: 00:21:50 a goal or reach a KPI within the business, if we can say to them, JD Dillon: 00:21:55 I can help you connect to the people who are going to execute JD Dillon: 00:21:58 your strategy and help you achieve that goal. Here's what I JD Dillon: 00:22:01 need to do it. That's the way we should be thinking about this JD Dillon: 00:22:04 story about providing an equitable experience. And then JD Dillon: 00:22:06 learning is part of that strategy. But it's not about JD Dillon: 00:22:11 learning, if that makes sense. Because everyone's trying to JD Dillon: 00:22:14 accomplish different goals. We're specialists in the JD Dillon: 00:22:17 learning behavior change side of the equation, we need to connect JD Dillon: 00:22:20 what we do to the personas of our audiences, to the goals and JD Dillon: 00:22:23 priorities of the people that were enabled by or that are our JD Dillon: 00:22:27 stakeholders. So connecting those dots is critical to JD Dillon: 00:22:30 delivering that equitable experience. Tom Moriarty: 00:22:32 Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense, right? I Tom Moriarty: 00:22:34 think it's I think what I'm what I'm hearing you say is it's Tom Moriarty: 00:22:36 about working with the stakeholder audiences that Tom Moriarty: 00:22:40 you're supporting, understanding their desired outcomes, and then Tom Moriarty: 00:22:46 trying to help facilitate that through learning. Rather than Tom Moriarty: 00:22:51 making learning or a learning measurable, the outcome, no Tom Moriarty: 00:22:55 focus on the business outcome, that that stakeholder that Tom Moriarty: 00:22:58 you're supporting is trying to achieve. And then help them Tom Moriarty: 00:23:00 understand how you can facilitate help facilitate that Tom Moriarty: 00:23:04 outcome through learning. Am I hearing you correctly there? JD Dillon: 00:23:09 Yes, and I think the most important thing we can do JD Dillon: 00:23:12 nowadays as L&D, it's less about content and the things we make, JD Dillon: 00:23:17 and it's more about the channels that we can enable the way that JD Dillon: 00:23:21 we can help the people who have information or the people who JD Dillon: 00:23:24 know, reach the people who need it. Because the priority today JD Dillon: 00:23:30 is unlikely to be the priority six months from now. And JD Dillon: 00:23:33 unlikely to be the priority 12 months from that, right? It's a JD Dillon: 00:23:36 constant. The priorities within an organization are moving JD Dillon: 00:23:39 target. And as a result, the knowledge and skill development JD Dillon: 00:23:42 requirements for the workforce is equally a moving target. Yes, JD Dillon: 00:23:46 there are certain things that are consistent, right, workplace JD Dillon: 00:23:48 safety being one of them, right, that's a constant priority that JD Dillon: 00:23:51 we're always going to address. But how can we instead of JD Dillon: 00:23:53 worrying about things from a programmatic perspective, right? JD Dillon: 00:23:56 Like, how do we structure perfect programs, so people go JD Dillon: 00:23:59 from A to Z, and that's what we're gonna manage? Right? That JD Dillon: 00:24:02 just kind of puts us in this constant tailspin of updating, JD Dillon: 00:24:06 updating new thing, add, add, add, and then the program that JD Dillon: 00:24:09 was really nice in the beginning. Now, it's kind of JD Dillon: 00:24:11 this mess, because you had to add 50 different things along JD Dillon: 00:24:14 the way, because new stakeholder, this lawyer, this JD Dillon: 00:24:16 new stakeholder, change new business already, yeah. So JD Dillon: 00:24:19 instead of starting their back out and say, okay, so what are JD Dillon: 00:24:23 the channels that we can use? Right? If if the executive team JD Dillon: 00:24:27 needs to reach the frontline with timely message? Can we help JD Dillon: 00:24:30 enable that channel? Right, because that channel already JD Dillon: 00:24:33 exists in the corporate workforce? It's Microsoft Teams, JD Dillon: 00:24:35 or its slack or its email. When that channel doesn't exist? How JD Dillon: 00:24:38 can this message a message get to the frontline? If we need to JD Dillon: 00:24:41 deploy skill update training, or we need to deploy product update JD Dillon: 00:24:45 training from the product team? What are the delivery methods JD Dillon: 00:24:49 that fit into each of our audiences realities? And how can JD Dillon: 00:24:53 we enable those channels whether it's installing the right JD Dillon: 00:24:57 technology, looking at different types of content? met JD Dillon: 00:25:00 methodologies talking about things like micro learning, so JD Dillon: 00:25:03 that people know how we can reach these different audiences, JD Dillon: 00:25:07 right, these channels are there, and different teams can use JD Dillon: 00:25:10 them. And then we get involved when it's the right project. So JD Dillon: 00:25:13 when it requires instructional design, right, when there's JD Dillon: 00:25:16 complexity involved in terms of what people have to learn, and JD Dillon: 00:25:20 the fact that they have to kind of practice and retain JD Dillon: 00:25:22 information, when we have to pull out our bag of tricks, JD Dillon: 00:25:24 we're available to do that. But instead of trying to always be JD Dillon: 00:25:27 the middle person, in the story, we focus our limited resources JD Dillon: 00:25:31 and capacity on the right projects. And then we enable JD Dillon: 00:25:35 others to step in and say it's okay, if the subject matter JD Dillon: 00:25:38 expert builds content, and deploys it to the audience. But JD Dillon: 00:25:41 what we don't want happening is every subject matter expert, JD Dillon: 00:25:44 putting together the worst PowerPoints you've ever seen, JD Dillon: 00:25:47 and then just tossing them over the fence at the same time at JD Dillon: 00:25:50 the same person who can't sit there and figure this out. JD Dillon: 00:25:53 Because none of this is designed to help them, right, everyone's JD Dillon: 00:25:56 got their own priorities, and they're hitting the same JD Dillon: 00:25:58 employee with them. And that employee has already got way too JD Dillon: 00:26:00 much to do. We can protect that experience by establishing JD Dillon: 00:26:05 better channels and working with our stakeholders to say this is JD Dillon: 00:26:08 the best way we can enable this person, this is the way to reach JD Dillon: 00:26:10 them. We'll even... a lot of... in my past roles, a lot of my JD Dillon: 00:26:13 capacity was put on training subject matter experts to write JD Dillon: 00:26:18 certain types of content to put together a video that was going JD Dillon: 00:26:21 to be delivered towards the audience so that we're JD Dillon: 00:26:23 protecting the limited attention, the limited capacity JD Dillon: 00:26:27 of the of the employee audience, and enabling people to have JD Dillon: 00:26:31 information to reach them when they need to. And then only when JD Dillon: 00:26:34 we have to get involved from a structured training perspective, JD Dillon: 00:26:37 do we build content and resources and activities because JD Dillon: 00:26:41 we can't tackle every challenge at the speed that things JD Dillon: 00:26:46 currently move. So we have to resource accordingly, which is JD Dillon: 00:26:50 why I think in a lot of cases, we have to put the channels in JD Dillon: 00:26:52 place, get out of the way, and then step in and support when JD Dillon: 00:26:54 it's the right thing to do. Tom Moriarty: 00:26:58 JD those are some great takeaways. I think that Tom Moriarty: 00:27:00 that also offers a great segue to another area that I want to I Tom Moriarty: 00:27:03 want to dig into but I think, you know, hopefully, the Tom Moriarty: 00:27:05 audience got a lot from that. I think there's a lot of valuable Tom Moriarty: 00:27:09 insight as it relates to stakeholder management, and, you Tom Moriarty: 00:27:12 know, getting the right focus for the role of learning and Tom Moriarty: 00:27:16 development in the organization, especially because all Tom Moriarty: 00:27:18 organizations as you, as you well put are always gonna have Tom Moriarty: 00:27:21 moving targets the goals, the goalposts, it's, it's it's not Tom Moriarty: 00:27:24 in the same place. So not as easy as a, you know, a soccer Tom Moriarty: 00:27:27 game or a football game where you know, it's 100 yards away, Tom Moriarty: 00:27:29 and it's not going anywhere. That's that's not how it works Tom Moriarty: 00:27:31 business today. You mentioned something earlier, you know, you Tom Moriarty: 00:27:36 talked about the challenge of it when you enable different Tom Moriarty: 00:27:39 subject matter experts, and the potential challenge of every Tom Moriarty: 00:27:43 single subject matter expert in your organization, creating Tom Moriarty: 00:27:46 their own beautiful, lovely PowerPoint, and driving it down Tom Moriarty: 00:27:51 the throat of the the frontline worker or the frontline learner Tom Moriarty: 00:27:54 all at the same time. Right. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier Tom Moriarty: 00:27:58 that those same employees, as you will put are very time Tom Moriarty: 00:28:02 limited, right, the amount of time that they have. And, Tom Moriarty: 00:28:07 frankly, maybe even desire that they have to focus their energy Tom Moriarty: 00:28:11 on learning or developing a Skill versus just completing Tom Moriarty: 00:28:16 their tasks and getting out the door is really limited. So how Tom Moriarty: 00:28:21 does the Learning and Development Professional Tom Moriarty: 00:28:23 navigate that? What do they do to get learner buy in to get Tom Moriarty: 00:28:27 that audience truly engaged and participating in in the training Tom Moriarty: 00:28:33 that they're offering, whether it be through subject matter Tom Moriarty: 00:28:35 experts or something that I'm facilitating directly? JD Dillon: 00:28:38 The biggest key is relevance. So for as Axonify, JD Dillon: 00:28:42 for example, what we do is we asked frontline employees to log JD Dillon: 00:28:47 into Axonify for maybe five minutes, every shift. That is a JD Dillon: 00:28:52 big ask, we know that is a big ask when they have so much to JD Dillon: 00:28:55 do, especially in a limited staffing environment. And like JD Dillon: 00:28:58 you said, people have different priorities, different goals JD Dillon: 00:29:00 different, they're there for different reasons. So in order JD Dillon: 00:29:03 for that five minutes to matter, that five minutes has to be JD Dillon: 00:29:08 relevant to me, the employee, I have to get something's gonna JD Dillon: 00:29:11 help me. And no matter why someone is there, I firmly JD Dillon: 00:29:15 believe... and and having a background in operational JD Dillon: 00:29:18 management helps me make statements like this... I JD Dillon: 00:29:20 believe everyone wants to do a good job. I don't believe JD Dillon: 00:29:23 everyone wants to make a career at this, right? They don't JD Dillon: 00:29:25 necessarily want to be with your company for 25 years. However, JD Dillon: 00:29:28 today, they want to do good job, they want to be safe, they want JD Dillon: 00:29:31 to get hurt. They don't want a customer to yell at them. They JD Dillon: 00:29:33 want to be able to answer the question, right? They want to JD Dillon: 00:29:35 feel good about that. So if that five minutes can be spent JD Dillon: 00:29:40 helping someone feel better about their ability to do the JD Dillon: 00:29:43 job, helping them feel more confident, helping them feel JD Dillon: 00:29:46 like they're clued in, they have the information or helping them JD Dillon: 00:29:49 feel like if they are interested in pursuing other avenues and JD Dillon: 00:29:53 opportunities that they have. They're being invested in, right JD Dillon: 00:29:56 that learning how to do the job better and building new skills JD Dillon: 00:29:59 and knowledge is part of this. And maybe it's not in a lot of JD Dillon: 00:30:03 other jobs or other jobs they've had in the past. And it's JD Dillon: 00:30:05 actually a factor that contributes to them wanting to JD Dillon: 00:30:08 stay and do a good job in this organization. So it begins with JD Dillon: 00:30:12 relevance that every time someone accesses learning JD Dillon: 00:30:15 resources, every time someone logs into the learning platform, JD Dillon: 00:30:19 they get what's useful to them. Not what everyone got, because JD Dillon: 00:30:22 well, that's what was sent out today, or someone required JD Dillon: 00:30:25 everyone to take the training. And that's where things are JD Dillon: 00:30:28 concepts like adaptive learning, personalization, data and JD Dillon: 00:30:31 measurement, all of that comes into play, because technology JD Dillon: 00:30:34 does allow us to figure out, you know, for you today, what's the JD Dillon: 00:30:38 best thing that we can work on with you today, as opposed to JD Dillon: 00:30:41 the person next to you, maybe has a different area of need, or JD Dillon: 00:30:44 different interest. So we're gonna focus on something JD Dillon: 00:30:46 different with that individual, even though you do the same job, JD Dillon: 00:30:50 we want to make sure that training is hyper relevant to JD Dillon: 00:30:52 you, so that every time you come back, you get something useful, JD Dillon: 00:30:55 and you say, this is worth my time. It's not just something my JD Dillon: 00:30:58 manager asked me to do, and definitely not doing it because JD Dillon: 00:31:01 some L&D person I've never met asked me to do it, right. It's JD Dillon: 00:31:04 something that's helping me. And then on top of that, you can JD Dillon: 00:31:07 layer in additional tactics, especially from the beginning, JD Dillon: 00:31:10 because the idea of relevance and value-add is very much JD Dillon: 00:31:13 intrinsic motivation, right, we want people to do the thing, JD Dillon: 00:31:15 because they want to do the thing, not because I asked them JD Dillon: 00:31:18 to or told them to, or because I tricked them into doing it, JD Dillon: 00:31:21 right. We want learning to be something people are invested in JD Dillon: 00:31:24 and own themselves. And that comes from relevance. But at the JD Dillon: 00:31:28 same time, sometimes you have to get that attention, or find JD Dillon: 00:31:31 other ways to start building the habit. Because one of the things JD Dillon: 00:31:34 we talked about it exemplifies building a habit of everyday JD Dillon: 00:31:36 learning, making something that creating an experience that JD Dillon: 00:31:39 people can complete once a shift, and it becomes just, it's JD Dillon: 00:31:43 not something you got to ask about. It's just something you JD Dillon: 00:31:45 do. Like all the other things you do at your your job every JD Dillon: 00:31:48 day, it's just part of the job, right? So how do you establish JD Dillon: 00:31:53 that for people who maybe haven't ever thought about JD Dillon: 00:31:56 workplace training that way, maybe in their previous jobs JD Dillon: 00:32:00 training was once a quarter, they put me in a room and they JD Dillon: 00:32:02 tell me all the stuff, and no one actually learned or I have JD Dillon: 00:32:04 to sit in the back room for multiple days in onboarding and JD Dillon: 00:32:07 after onboarding, I don't really get much when it comes to JD Dillon: 00:32:09 development activity. Or maybe this is my first job. And I JD Dillon: 00:32:14 think learning looks like school. Right? Because school, JD Dillon: 00:32:18 you go to a class for a period of time, and it's over and JD Dillon: 00:32:22 you're done learning that, that doesn't look like workplace JD Dillon: 00:32:26 learning, especially to me. So how do we get people out of that JD Dillon: 00:32:29 mode of learning is a place and a time to learning is a JD Dillon: 00:32:32 continuous habit and activity. That's where tactics like JD Dillon: 00:32:36 gamification come in. So it's about layering in these JD Dillon: 00:32:39 different mechanics and understanding your workplace JD Dillon: 00:32:41 culture and the people you're supporting. So you can craft an JD Dillon: 00:32:44 experience that makes sense for your audience and your work JD Dillon: 00:32:47 environment, and then use these types of mechanics and and an JD Dillon: 00:32:51 experience that's simple and straightforward, right? So it's JD Dillon: 00:32:53 not hard for people to find it. It's not hard for people to get JD Dillon: 00:32:57 to content. I once asked my team in a previous job, how many JD Dillon: 00:33:01 clicks does it take to play a video in our learning management JD Dillon: 00:33:04 system? And the answer was seven. And I said, how many JD Dillon: 00:33:07 clicks does it take to play a YouTube video? One? What do you JD Dillon: 00:33:11 think's going to happen here? Right, we're being judged at the JD Dillon: 00:33:14 bar of consumer technology, not just workplace technology. So if JD Dillon: 00:33:18 you craft an experience, that's easy to get to, right in the JD Dillon: 00:33:23 flow of work, if I'm holding a device as part of my job, can I JD Dillon: 00:33:26 get to my resources on this device, rather than having to JD Dillon: 00:33:29 put this device down and go to a place I never go to in order to JD Dillon: 00:33:33 experience training? Right? We've already lost in that JD Dillon: 00:33:36 scenario. So is it easy to get to is easy to understand, right? JD Dillon: 00:33:40 I have to click through a bunch of menus or click through a JD Dillon: 00:33:42 bunch of websites that I don't know, in order to get where I JD Dillon: 00:33:45 need to go. And then when I'm there? Is it an engaging JD Dillon: 00:33:48 experience that may again, bring me back for different reasons, JD Dillon: 00:33:52 because this is, dare I say, fun to do? Write every day? And then JD Dillon: 00:33:57 ultimately, is this helping me if every time I come into the JD Dillon: 00:34:01 learning platform, it helps me remember something? It helps me JD Dillon: 00:34:05 learn something new, it helps me? Oh, I didn't. I never JD Dillon: 00:34:08 thought about it that way. If you get that experience every JD Dillon: 00:34:11 day, then learning becomes part of work. So that's what it takes JD Dillon: 00:34:15 to engage a large distributed workforce and a lot of cases a JD Dillon: 00:34:18 workforce that L&D rarely physically sees, right? If you JD Dillon: 00:34:22 have 75,000 employees and 40 people on your L&D team, you JD Dillon: 00:34:26 never interact with most of your employees. But how do you JD Dillon: 00:34:29 understand their day to day experience enough so that you JD Dillon: 00:34:32 craft an experience that makes it feel like to that employee, JD Dillon: 00:34:36 that the person who put this together understands me, what I JD Dillon: 00:34:40 go through what my day to day looks like and what I need, and JD Dillon: 00:34:44 the right combination of things like game mechanics, data, AI, JD Dillon: 00:34:48 personalization, mobile technology, it's about bringing JD Dillon: 00:34:51 all of the things we've been talking about often in isolation JD Dillon: 00:34:54 for like, the last 10 years, bringing all of those pieces JD Dillon: 00:34:57 together, because that's what it takes to put by that equitable JD Dillon: 00:35:00 experience we're talking about. And it is unfortunately, more JD Dillon: 00:35:04 challenging for a distributed workforce that in large numbers JD Dillon: 00:35:07 that work in different regions, different countries, like you JD Dillon: 00:35:11 said, very time limited, those are a lot of meaningful JD Dillon: 00:35:13 challenges. But I've worked with organizations where we figured JD Dillon: 00:35:17 out how to provide an equitable experience to a person driving a JD Dillon: 00:35:21 moped in a country that I've never been to as part of a ride JD Dillon: 00:35:25 sharing service, where the person is carrying an Android JD Dillon: 00:35:28 device that you can't buy on the on the internet, the only way to JD Dillon: 00:35:32 test your application on that device is to eBay old devices, JD Dillon: 00:35:36 they also don't necessarily have great internet connection, and JD Dillon: 00:35:39 there is no Wi Fi on the back of the moped. So if you can figure JD Dillon: 00:35:42 that out how to get that person relevant support that they'll JD Dillon: 00:35:46 use every day, everything else suddenly gets a lot easier. So JD Dillon: 00:35:50 it's always interesting, when people will ask me and my team, JD Dillon: 00:35:53 you know, we have limited bandwidth in our retail stores, JD Dillon: 00:35:55 right? The bandwidth is all taken up by the point of sale JD Dillon: 00:35:57 system, business processes, and whatnot like, and our elearning JD Dillon: 00:36:00 always like buffers for like 10 minutes when people are trying JD Dillon: 00:36:04 to load it. Like, if we can reach someone via cell service JD Dillon: 00:36:09 on an Android device is 10 years old, who's riding a motorcycle JD Dillon: 00:36:13 in a country, none of us have been to, I think, I think I can JD Dillon: 00:36:16 handle your retail store. It's making sure we can, we can JD Dillon: 00:36:20 handle those types of environments. Because just you JD Dillon: 00:36:22 know, I think the overall message is, it's possible, you JD Dillon: 00:36:25 can reach everybody, it just requires the right amount of JD Dillon: 00:36:29 effort and investment. In order to make sure you're architecting JD Dillon: 00:36:31 experiences that make sense for people and not expecting them to JD Dillon: 00:36:35 come to you, we have to go to them. And that is now fully JD Dillon: 00:36:39 possible for different types of workers. Tom Moriarty: 00:36:43 I love that there's, there's a lot there, Tom Moriarty: 00:36:45 there's a lot to unpack. But I love that I love the thought. Tom Moriarty: 00:36:47 First of all, I love the possibility in that example of Tom Moriarty: 00:36:50 reaching the worker on Android device that you can only get on Tom Moriarty: 00:36:55 eBay on the back of a moped. And if you could do that, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:36:59 there's a lot that can be accomplished. And I love that Tom Moriarty: 00:37:01 that's very, hopefully should be a very motivating message for Tom Moriarty: 00:37:03 the audience. I think that there's a lot of value in that Tom Moriarty: 00:37:08 concept that you shared, of maybe start by focusing on Tom Moriarty: 00:37:14 making learning for the frontline employee a habit and Tom Moriarty: 00:37:18 start by having a clear focus on how do I accomplish that first. Tom Moriarty: 00:37:23 And once I've accomplished that, then I can start to add levels Tom Moriarty: 00:37:27 of complexity to what it is that they're learning, right. But I Tom Moriarty: 00:37:30 have to cross that bridge before I can even get to the second Tom Moriarty: 00:37:32 bridge, to be able to make sure that you know the program or the Tom Moriarty: 00:37:36 content that I'm putting together ultimately, is Tom Moriarty: 00:37:38 something that's effective. I think that's... I think that's Tom Moriarty: 00:37:40 really great. I guess to wrap up with a with a final question, if Tom Moriarty: 00:37:44 there was one takeaway that you would hope, a learning and Tom Moriarty: 00:37:47 development team, let's say at a large retail organization with Tom Moriarty: 00:37:52 500 locations and frontline employees and a contact center, Tom Moriarty: 00:37:58 you know, people working in a store, if there's one takeaway Tom Moriarty: 00:38:01 that you would want them to take from this conversation, and you Tom Moriarty: 00:38:04 could only pick one, what would that be? JD Dillon: 00:38:06 It would be that you can accomplish a lot in five JD Dillon: 00:38:09 minutes. Right? Five minutes does not sound like a lot and JD Dillon: 00:38:13 learning and development, especially when we're used to, JD Dillon: 00:38:15 like you said very complex products, right, very complex JD Dillon: 00:38:19 training programs, onboarding experiences that take weeks, in JD Dillon: 00:38:23 a lot of cases, any any backup to well, what can you really JD Dillon: 00:38:27 learn in five minutes, you're not going to learn how to fly an JD Dillon: 00:38:29 airplane in five minutes. I completely agree. Right? I'm not JD Dillon: 00:38:32 saying it's only five minutes, the only only version of JD Dillon: 00:38:35 training we ever do an example of frontline employees. In a JD Dillon: 00:38:39 retail environment, there's a lot of hands on training, right? JD Dillon: 00:38:41 There's a lot of peer to peer training, manager led training JD Dillon: 00:38:43 where you are physically doing the job. And that's a huge part JD Dillon: 00:38:47 of the story. None of that goes away. But like you said, when JD Dillon: 00:38:50 it's grounded on this foundation, that we're going to JD Dillon: 00:38:54 help incrementally improve people's knowledge, we're going JD Dillon: 00:38:56 to reinforce people's knowledge that there is some thing about JD Dillon: 00:39:01 learning that is built into the workflow, whether it's a push JD Dillon: 00:39:05 experience that I get, you know, push that right fit activity, JD Dillon: 00:39:08 I'm going to focus on today, whether it's I can use my JD Dillon: 00:39:10 handheld device to pull up information when I need to when JD Dillon: 00:39:13 I need to solve a problem. When we embed the experience of JD Dillon: 00:39:17 learning into the day in this way. It changes the way you talk JD Dillon: 00:39:22 about workplace learning, it changes the way that you value JD Dillon: 00:39:26 these ideas, because you're opening up this channel that you JD Dillon: 00:39:29 can then and building this habit that you can leverage as things JD Dillon: 00:39:33 change. So instead of having to try to get people's attention JD Dillon: 00:39:36 every time there's a new program every time you want to train JD Dillon: 00:39:39 them on something new and you got to go through the rigmarole JD Dillon: 00:39:42 of how are we going to schedule people? Right, can we how long JD Dillon: 00:39:45 is it going to take we got to make a spreadsheet so we can JD Dillon: 00:39:48 send out to the managers of the people who are delinquent so we JD Dillon: 00:39:50 can make sure we get 100% Right? All of that starts to become JD Dillon: 00:39:54 less and less of a burden. When you think about how can we build JD Dillon: 00:39:58 that habit to say, So what are you going to do for five minutes JD Dillon: 00:40:01 a day? And the other thing that I didn't mention before, is that JD Dillon: 00:40:05 when you think about learning in terms of minutes, instead of JD Dillon: 00:40:07 programs, you're actually closer to how learning really works. JD Dillon: 00:40:11 Because you can create a great two hour online course, it can JD Dillon: 00:40:14 be the most dynamic and engaging piece of content you've ever JD Dillon: 00:40:17 seen. People are not going to remember most of it, right? JD Dillon: 00:40:20 Unless they immediately walk out the door and start applying that JD Dillon: 00:40:23 information. And that drives retention. Right? Great. If you JD Dillon: 00:40:27 can deliver it at the moment of need. That way, we usually don't JD Dillon: 00:40:30 have that luxury, especially at the scale of trying to support JD Dillon: 00:40:33 400,000 People who are all in very different places, when it JD Dillon: 00:40:36 comes to their development. And when they're going to maybe deal JD Dillon: 00:40:39 with a particular customer objection, or they're going to JD Dillon: 00:40:41 handle a particular product or try to upsell a particular JD Dillon: 00:40:44 thing, right. It's all very unpredictable in that way. So JD Dillon: 00:40:48 when you distill it back down to say, instead of trying to hit JD Dillon: 00:40:52 everyone with a firehose of content, because I can only JD Dillon: 00:40:55 access them once in a while. Instead, if I can reach people JD Dillon: 00:40:58 for five minutes a day or five minutes a shift, I can JD Dillon: 00:41:01 incrementally grow their knowledge, right, I can say, JD Dillon: 00:41:04 we're going to focus on the foundational pieces, and then JD Dillon: 00:41:06 you might accelerate in that five minutes a day much faster JD Dillon: 00:41:09 than the other person next to you. And we're going to spend JD Dillon: 00:41:11 some more time on the foundation with that person. But here, JD Dillon: 00:41:14 we're gonna accelerate you forward towards additional JD Dillon: 00:41:16 information towards new skills that might help you pursue JD Dillon: 00:41:19 additional opportunities. But when it's when it's grounded in JD Dillon: 00:41:22 five minutes a day learning becomes a habit, learning JD Dillon: 00:41:25 becomes part of the culture. Tom Moriarty: 00:41:27 I love that I think that's a great takeaway. I Tom Moriarty: 00:41:28 really liked that. And the other statement that you made that I Tom Moriarty: 00:41:31 think that sums up well to is think of learning in minutes, Tom Moriarty: 00:41:34 not in programs. That that's that's a fantastic takeaway. Tom Moriarty: 00:41:37 And, you know, I think it's one that, you know, hopefully the Tom Moriarty: 00:41:39 audience can absolutely use for the frontline employee. But Tom Moriarty: 00:41:42 frankly, I think any, anybody that's receiving learning, and Tom Moriarty: 00:41:45 you're right, that it works in in time, not in, not in programs Tom Moriarty: 00:41:49 or courses. JD, thank you so much for your for your time. Tom Moriarty: 00:41:54 This has been a fantastic conversation. I think it's been Tom Moriarty: 00:41:57 very enjoyable. I'm sure the audience has pages and pages and Tom Moriarty: 00:42:00 notes I know I do. If anybody in the audience wants to hear more Tom Moriarty: 00:42:05 about what you are doing or what Axonify is doing, or get more of Tom Moriarty: 00:42:08 the valuable content and information that you shared, Tom Moriarty: 00:42:11 where can they find you? JD Dillon: 00:42:13 Sure, you can find out more about Axonify JD Dillon: 00:42:14 axonify.com. You can find me on LinkedIn, just search JD Dylan, JD Dillon: 00:42:19 there's only one I in my last name, despite what everyone JD Dillon: 00:42:22 seems to believe. And then also, I'd recommend that every two JD Dillon: 00:42:27 weeks on Wednesdays at 1130 Eastern time, I host a live JD Dillon: 00:42:31 stream with Axonify where we bring on smart people from JD Dillon: 00:42:35 across the industry and 25 minutes or less, I ask five JD Dillon: 00:42:38 questions about a very pointed part of the story of workplace JD Dillon: 00:42:42 learning and experience. We talk about things like retail JD Dillon: 00:42:45 transformation, we're talking about games and learning with JD Dillon: 00:42:47 Karl, we're going to talk about the skills story with Dani JD Dillon: 00:42:50 Johnson from RedThread. So I urge people if you want to dig JD Dillon: 00:42:53 into more of these types of themes, check out our LinkedIn JD Dillon: 00:42:56 live stream that's every other Wednesday 11:30am Eastern Time. JD Dillon: 00:43:00 And you'll see plenty of from me on LinkedIn sharing, when JD Dillon: 00:43:03 upcoming episodes will be airing. And you can find it all JD Dillon: 00:43:06 of our recorded episodes are on YouTube as well. So if you go to JD Dillon: 00:43:08 Axonify, his YouTube channel, you can check out our past JD Dillon: 00:43:11 episodes. Tom Moriarty: 00:43:11 Well, thank you so much. JD, I really appreciate Tom Moriarty: 00:43:14 your time. This is a very enjoyable and informative Tom Moriarty: 00:43:18 conversation for me. So I really appreciate and I know our Tom Moriarty: 00:43:21 audience well. Thanks so much and have a great rest of your Tom Moriarty: 00:43:24 day. JD Dillon: 00:43:25 Bye, everybody. Tom Moriarty: 00:43:26 The Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo, Tom Moriarty: 00:43:28 the better way to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk of Tom Moriarty: 00:43:31 the Trade, for tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders. Tom Moriarty: 00:43:35 Visit www.mimeo.com for more information.