Hybrid Learning: A March 2020 Inspiration Story March 2020. Mary Glowacka has spent nine months preparing a multiyear employee wellness program hinging on in-person training. And then the pandemic hits. This is the story of what happened next. TranscriptTom Moriarty: 00:00:01 Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of Tom Moriarty: 00:00:03 Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&D Tom […] March 2020. Mary Glowacka has spent nine months preparing a multiyear employee wellness program hinging on in-person training. And then the pandemic hits. This is the story of what happened next. TranscriptTom Moriarty: 00:00:01 Welcome, you made it to the Secret Society of Tom Moriarty: 00:00:03 Success! In this not-so-secret podcast, we interview L&D Tom Moriarty: 00:00:07 changemakers about how they approach the evolving corporate Tom Moriarty: 00:00:10 environment and cultivate their own careers. We hope that from Tom Moriarty: 00:00:14 their stories, you find lessons and inspirations to make Tom Moriarty: 00:00:17 yourself, your people and your organization's more successful. Tom Moriarty: 00:00:21 In this first season, we're exploring the topic of hybrid learning: 00:00:24 what that means a different organizations, why it learning: 00:00:27 is increasingly important, and how l&d leaders can invest in learning: 00:00:30 the right resources to best leverage it. Today, we want to learning: 00:00:35 talk about how switching to hybrid learning impacts the learning: 00:00:38 members of the L&D team, and how L&D leaders can successfully learning: 00:00:43 manage that transition. To make better light of this learning: 00:00:47 conversation, we've invited Mary Glowacka of Preply to share a learning: 00:00:51 specific story from the winter of 2020. Welcome, Mary. How are learning: 00:00:56 you today? Mary Glowacka: 00:00:57 Hi, Tom. I'm great. Thank you. How are you? Tom Moriarty: 00:01:01 I'm fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us Tom Moriarty: 00:01:03 really appreciate it. So listen, before we jump into your 2020... Tom Moriarty: 00:01:07 I'll call it an inspiration story...can you give us a quick Tom Moriarty: 00:01:11 overview of your career in HR and L&D? Mary Glowacka: 00:01:14 Yes, absolutely. I'm really happy to be here. Mary Glowacka: 00:01:17 Thanks for having me. And thanks to everyone who's joining to Mary Glowacka: 00:01:21 listening. Yes, my entry point to the whole world of HR was Mary Glowacka: 00:01:25 through training. I started or quite young in that domain with Mary Glowacka: 00:01:30 no prior experience. I studied linguistics, in fact, so quite Mary Glowacka: 00:01:35 far fetched from what I ended up doing professionally. And I just Mary Glowacka: 00:01:39 fell in love with the whole topic of people development and Mary Glowacka: 00:01:42 helping organizations grow and become better and better over Mary Glowacka: 00:01:46 time through its people. I worked predominantly in the Mary Glowacka: 00:01:49 corporate world at Nestle, EY, Bank of America, where I held Mary Glowacka: 00:01:56 global roles predominantly focused on organizational Mary Glowacka: 00:02:00 development, leadership development, coaching, learning Mary Glowacka: 00:02:04 and development strategies, learning technologies, and Mary Glowacka: 00:02:08 performance enablement, from strategy to then translating Mary Glowacka: 00:02:13 those strategies into execution plans and driving big Mary Glowacka: 00:02:17 transformational changes for these organizations. And now I Mary Glowacka: 00:02:21 am in the fantastic world of scale ups at Preply in the world Mary Glowacka: 00:02:26 of language learning. And I head up the center of people Mary Glowacka: 00:02:30 excellence, again, focusing on organizational development Mary Glowacka: 00:02:34 across the whole company with my team. Tom Moriarty: 00:02:37 That is awesome, very impressive background, Tom Moriarty: 00:02:39 Mary, I'm excited to get the opportunity. I know you and I Tom Moriarty: 00:02:42 had spoke a little bit about that the story you're gonna Tom Moriarty: 00:02:45 share from, from your time at Bank of America. And I think Tom Moriarty: 00:02:47 it's an incredible one. So I know that the vast experience Tom Moriarty: 00:02:50 you've got leading teams and departments should definitely Tom Moriarty: 00:02:54 give our listeners awesome takeaways from our conversation Tom Moriarty: 00:02:57 today. So excited to, to dig into it. Before we start the Tom Moriarty: 00:03:02 story, which is the really exciting part, what we're trying Tom Moriarty: 00:03:05 to do is just ask our guests to begin the conversation defining Tom Moriarty: 00:03:09 a couple of key terms, so that the context of how we use them Tom Moriarty: 00:03:15 throughout the discussion is clear from your perspective, Tom Moriarty: 00:03:18 right. So to start, Mary, how do you define hybrid learning? Mary Glowacka: 00:03:24 Sure, I don't necessarily deem the term hybrid Mary Glowacka: 00:03:28 learning anything particularly new in the world of learning and Mary Glowacka: 00:03:32 development. I pretty much understand that there's a Mary Glowacka: 00:03:35 blended learning approach, where you seek the best method of Mary Glowacka: 00:03:42 training or delivering learning to your people to meet their at Mary Glowacka: 00:03:46 their point of need, and you're finding the best way of Mary Glowacka: 00:03:50 conveying that that learning initiative, let's put it that Mary Glowacka: 00:03:54 way. So it's, it's a combination of different types of approaches Mary Glowacka: 00:03:59 that blend into one learning experience, and then hybrid, Mary Glowacka: 00:04:04 that particular word and there is, you know, in the context of Mary Glowacka: 00:04:08 enabling that anytime, anywhere, and meeting people where they Mary Glowacka: 00:04:13 are and not necessarily forcing them to travel to sit in a Mary Glowacka: 00:04:17 classroom, for lack of a for lack of a better example. Tom Moriarty: 00:04:22 Yeah, I think that's great. It that's, you Tom Moriarty: 00:04:24 know, it's funny, as we've been going through this season, you Tom Moriarty: 00:04:28 know, we continue to hear that theme, right? This is not a new Tom Moriarty: 00:04:32 term, it is just a topic that's become increasingly relevant in Tom Moriarty: 00:04:37 the context of what the, you know, the global events in the Tom Moriarty: 00:04:40 last in the last 48 months. So I don't want to wait any further. Tom Moriarty: 00:04:44 Let's set the stage. It's March 2020. Where are you and what are Tom Moriarty: 00:04:49 you working on? Mary Glowacka: 00:04:50 Sounds very ominous. like Game of Thrones a Mary Glowacka: 00:04:53 little bit, right? Yes, it's it's March 2020. For the past Mary Glowacka: 00:04:58 six to eight months. I had been leading a global project at the Mary Glowacka: 00:05:04 Bank- Tom Moriarty: 00:05:05 and Bank of America correct? Mary Glowacka: 00:05:06 And that's Bank of America. It's a global Mary Glowacka: 00:05:09 project, focusing around providing people with tools and Mary Glowacka: 00:05:15 practical tactics and strategies to support themselves and others Mary Glowacka: 00:05:21 in their teams as well as in their families from an emotional Mary Glowacka: 00:05:25 perspective. So very much focused on topics like Mary Glowacka: 00:05:28 resilience, and to health and wellness and so on. And we Mary Glowacka: 00:05:32 started designing this program together with the Thrive Global, Mary Glowacka: 00:05:36 the company set up by Arianna Huffington, when we started Mary Glowacka: 00:05:41 designing this program, in the year before, and at that stage Mary Glowacka: 00:05:46 in March, at the beginning of March, we are a few days before Mary Glowacka: 00:05:52 launching this program globally. Originally, the strategy was Mary Glowacka: 00:05:57 that the program was designed, first of all, with five core Mary Glowacka: 00:06:02 modules, again, a blended experience. But the prerequisite Mary Glowacka: 00:06:07 module, the first one was a classroom environment Mary Glowacka: 00:06:10 experience. So that's in terms of the program's components. In Mary Glowacka: 00:06:17 terms of the broader strategy, we were targeting managers... Mary Glowacka: 00:06:21 manager population across the bank with the view that the Mary Glowacka: 00:06:25 managers cascade the key messages to their team. And the Mary Glowacka: 00:06:30 location strategy was such that we mapped out the key hubs Mary Glowacka: 00:06:35 across the world. And that's where we were going to conduct Mary Glowacka: 00:06:40 these prerequisite sessions with the view, of course, that we Mary Glowacka: 00:06:44 selected the hubs where majority of the manager population was Mary Glowacka: 00:06:48 already present, right, with an assumption that there will be an Mary Glowacka: 00:06:52 element of, of course, many people having to travel. Tom Moriarty: 00:06:55 And, and just to continue to level set a little Tom Moriarty: 00:06:58 bit about the story, because I know you and I have talked about Tom Moriarty: 00:07:00 it quite a bit... This is a pretty visible program at the Tom Moriarty: 00:07:03 bank, was it not? I think you had some pretty high level Tom Moriarty: 00:07:07 sponsorship for this program. Mary Glowacka: 00:07:08 Yes, absolutely. It was a very high profile Mary Glowacka: 00:07:11 program. It was sponsored by the CEO of the bank himself. So yes, Mary Glowacka: 00:07:15 very, very important program, which also, you know, shows you Mary Glowacka: 00:07:20 how important the topics of wellness and employee, you know, Mary Glowacka: 00:07:24 mental well being as well have already important to that Mary Glowacka: 00:07:29 organization. Tom Moriarty: 00:07:30 Yeah. Mary Glowacka: 00:07:32 Because as I said, we started designing it Mary Glowacka: 00:07:35 around and building the whole strategy around May 2019. Mary Glowacka: 00:07:39 Actually, we've got to remember, it's an organization of over Mary Glowacka: 00:07:43 200,000 people. And there was also a big element of Mary Glowacka: 00:07:48 accrediting our facilitators. So we identified a number of people Mary Glowacka: 00:07:53 from the business who would become facilitators and as part Mary Glowacka: 00:07:57 of the partnership with with our vendor, they needed to go Mary Glowacka: 00:08:01 through a specialist accreditation program because Mary Glowacka: 00:08:04 the the program that we built was very, very heavily based on Mary Glowacka: 00:08:10 the latest science and research around mental well being around Mary Glowacka: 00:08:15 things like you know how lack of sleep affects you. And things Mary Glowacka: 00:08:21 like that. So there was almost a four month Train the Trainer Mary Glowacka: 00:08:25 program for our facilitators. And once they got accredited, Mary Glowacka: 00:08:30 they were ready to they were ready to run. And going back to, Mary Glowacka: 00:08:35 to our timeline. It's March beginning of March 2020. And Mary Glowacka: 00:08:39 we're a few days from launching and then things are starting Mary Glowacka: 00:08:44 starting to, to unravel. Tom Moriarty: 00:08:47 Okay, so, so let me let me just recap, a level Tom Moriarty: 00:08:50 set, and then you can continue down sort of the path of the Tom Moriarty: 00:08:53 story, right, so. So for the audience, I mean, you've been Tom Moriarty: 00:08:58 leading this project, to deliver a co sponsored learning Tom Moriarty: 00:09:03 initiative, that you're collaborating with an outside Tom Moriarty: 00:09:07 vendor on, right? You're you've got a group of facilitators Tom Moriarty: 00:09:11 across the globe, that are SMEs that are accredited that you Tom Moriarty: 00:09:15 have to go, who are, I would imagine very excited, and Tom Moriarty: 00:09:19 enthused about the honor of being a facilitator for part of Tom Moriarty: 00:09:23 a program that's ultimately sponsored by the CEO of the Tom Moriarty: 00:09:25 organization. Right. And, and you train them, you train them Tom Moriarty: 00:09:30 on how to facilitate in the context that you're planning, Tom Moriarty: 00:09:34 which is an in person environment, right. So it's Tom Moriarty: 00:09:39 March 2020, everything everyone knows what happened in March Tom Moriarty: 00:09:42 2020. So what do you what do you do? Mary Glowacka: 00:09:45 I will never forget that day. I was still at Mary Glowacka: 00:09:47 the office. It was about eight in the evening. I think it was a Mary Glowacka: 00:09:51 Thursday or a Friday. And our facilitators...our facilitators Mary Glowacka: 00:09:59 were supposed to travel from the US for the kickoff, the week Mary Glowacka: 00:10:03 after, and I get a call that sadly, the situation in the US Mary Glowacka: 00:10:09 with the pandemic is such that no one is allowed to travel Mary Glowacka: 00:10:12 anymore. So look, what do you do? You take a breath, first of Mary Glowacka: 00:10:19 all, or to or to if you need to, maybe you need a glass of water, Mary Glowacka: 00:10:23 maybe a glass of wine, whatever helps you in the moment. Tom Moriarty: 00:10:27 Yeah. Mary Glowacka: 00:10:27 And I think first thing you do is you accept the Mary Glowacka: 00:10:30 reality, because these are factors that are completely Mary Glowacka: 00:10:33 outside of your control. So you start thinking about a way Mary Glowacka: 00:10:39 forward and... Well, first thing we knew was that we didn't know Mary Glowacka: 00:10:47 what the situation was really going to look like with the Mary Glowacka: 00:10:50 pandemic. Let's remember, it was the first really couple of Mary Glowacka: 00:10:53 weeks, especially in the UK, where I was based at the time. Mary Glowacka: 00:10:58 And very much people were in denial. I remember exactly the Mary Glowacka: 00:11:03 comments, especially when we started working from home, Mary Glowacka: 00:11:07 people were saying goodbyes in the office and say, "Okay, see Mary Glowacka: 00:11:10 you in the next see you in a couple of weeks." And we never Mary Glowacka: 00:11:13 went back to the office, you know, so yeah, so that was the Mary Glowacka: 00:11:17 mindset at the time. And first of all, we needed to work Mary Glowacka: 00:11:20 through with that mindset, because there was an element of, Mary Glowacka: 00:11:24 okay, we'll just postpone for a couple of weeks. And that was Mary Glowacka: 00:11:28 one first big hurdle to start conversations around. Okay, that Mary Glowacka: 00:11:33 is one option that we will be able to resume in a couple of Mary Glowacka: 00:11:36 weeks. But really, we are making assumptions about things here Mary Glowacka: 00:11:40 that are only just starting, and they're completely outside of Mary Glowacka: 00:11:43 our control as an organization. So very, very quickly, we we Mary Glowacka: 00:11:49 made a very, I believe, at the time very responsible decision. Mary Glowacka: 00:11:53 And we assume that we don't know what's going to happen. And Mary Glowacka: 00:11:57 therefore we didn't want to compromise the program, because Mary Glowacka: 00:12:00 there was a very, very big strategic importance to our Mary Glowacka: 00:12:04 leadership and in the bank. So what do you do? So first of all, Mary Glowacka: 00:12:08 you need to go back to strategy and revisit it. And the face Mary Glowacka: 00:12:12 assumption was, well, we need to convert this program to be 100% Mary Glowacka: 00:12:16 virtual. So eliminate the aspect of travel and in person Mary Glowacka: 00:12:24 interactions. So that was an immediate thing that we knew and Mary Glowacka: 00:12:27 that we agreed on. And that was our first assumption. And but Mary Glowacka: 00:12:32 then, of course, there was an element of okay, well, we now Mary Glowacka: 00:12:37 need to revisit some of the content and validate whether any Mary Glowacka: 00:12:43 changes to the content need to be made in order for the content Mary Glowacka: 00:12:47 to lend itself for virtual delivery, as opposed to Mary Glowacka: 00:12:50 classroom delivery. And we know right, that if you've planned a Mary Glowacka: 00:12:55 group exercise in classroom, you can also achieve this on WebEx Mary Glowacka: 00:12:59 or zoom, right, you can create a breakout room. But perhaps you Mary Glowacka: 00:13:03 need to give people different instructions, right. So there is Mary Glowacka: 00:13:07 always some element of content to redesigned. It can be 10%, it Mary Glowacka: 00:13:12 can be 50%. But there is always that element. I think one other Mary Glowacka: 00:13:17 important thing that I should add at this time is the Mary Glowacka: 00:13:20 facilitators who went through the train the trainer program Mary Glowacka: 00:13:24 and got accredited, you know, fantastic professionals, but not Mary Glowacka: 00:13:27 professional facilitators, not professional facilitators. So Mary Glowacka: 00:13:33 reason why I'm sharing this as well is because that was one of Mary Glowacka: 00:13:36 the biggest elements of the complete change in strategy that Mary Glowacka: 00:13:41 we had to work through. Because I think you made that comment Mary Glowacka: 00:13:44 earlier, Tom, actually, absolutely. Our facilitators Mary Glowacka: 00:13:47 were so excited. They understood the weight and the importance Mary Glowacka: 00:13:52 and the prominence of this project. The Train the Trainer Mary Glowacka: 00:13:56 program for four months that they went through was really Mary Glowacka: 00:13:59 phenomenal. The Thrive Global team did such a great job with Mary Glowacka: 00:14:03 them. And it was, you know, it was it was world class, Train Mary Glowacka: 00:14:07 the Trainer program. And really, they were so emotionally Mary Glowacka: 00:14:11 attached to this program, our facilitators, I will never Mary Glowacka: 00:14:15 forget what their reaction was in the first couple of weeks. Tom Moriarty: 00:14:21 What was it? How did they react? Mary Glowacka: 00:14:22 Well, first, it was first it was disbelief. Mary Glowacka: 00:14:25 Right? And first from the facilitators, what we heard, Mary Glowacka: 00:14:29 okay, let's just wait a couple of weeks, you know, let's just Mary Glowacka: 00:14:32 wait a couple of weeks and postpone the launch and we'll do Mary Glowacka: 00:14:36 it, you know, even if a month later yeah. Then when of course Mary Glowacka: 00:14:40 the decision was made to change the strategy in terms of how Mary Glowacka: 00:14:44 this program is delivered. Everyone was very professional, Mary Glowacka: 00:14:47 but there was an element of disappointment, you know, and I Mary Glowacka: 00:14:51 can understand, you know, they put their heart and soul into it Mary Glowacka: 00:14:54 on top of their day to day jobs as well and they were selected Mary Glowacka: 00:14:58 for a reason for this program to be our facilitators. So I can Mary Glowacka: 00:15:03 completely understand. People put a lot of work and passion Mary Glowacka: 00:15:06 into it, and suddenly we're saying, it is going to Mary Glowacka: 00:15:09 completely change. And then there was an other element, I Mary Glowacka: 00:15:12 believe of fear. Facilitation in classroom is very different to Mary Glowacka: 00:15:16 facilitate to virtual facilitation, some skills that Mary Glowacka: 00:15:21 you need, or are common, but they, but there are some skills Mary Glowacka: 00:15:26 that are different. So for them, it was also that fear of, first Mary Glowacka: 00:15:31 of all, I don't know how to do it virtually. So it's so that Mary Glowacka: 00:15:34 it's engaging and effective to is it really going to be a good Mary Glowacka: 00:15:39 experience? If I'm not with the people in the room? Right, you Mary Glowacka: 00:15:43 know, and again, we know, you know, learning and development Mary Glowacka: 00:15:48 professionals know that you can create a great discussion, a Mary Glowacka: 00:15:53 great session virtually. But I could also I could understand Mary Glowacka: 00:15:59 their perspective, they just couldn't imagine how it would Mary Glowacka: 00:16:02 work, how it would be an impactful program when they Mary Glowacka: 00:16:07 deliver everything over WebEx, because we were using WebEx at Mary Glowacka: 00:16:10 the time, right? Tom Moriarty: 00:16:11 I mean, I'd imagine from their perspective, Tom Moriarty: 00:16:13 they're taking a lot of pride, they put a lot of effort in, Tom Moriarty: 00:16:16 Well, my approach in situations like that, typically, is you Tom Moriarty: 00:16:16 right. And I think that there's a little bit of deep down in Tom Moriarty: 00:16:20 there, especially if you haven't facilitated over zoom, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:16:23 there's probably a little bit of human ego, which everyone has in Tom Moriarty: 00:16:27 there that says, you know, like, I need to help be in the room Tom Moriarty: 00:16:30 and, you know, make eye contact and see and have an awareness Tom Moriarty: 00:16:34 and try to, you know, build on some of those facilitation Tom Moriarty: 00:16:37 skills that I took the time to learn to create an effective Tom Moriarty: 00:16:40 environment, because I know how important this is for the Tom Moriarty: 00:16:43 organization and how high profile it is. How do you help Tom Moriarty: 00:16:47 them through that? How do you help, you know, get the Tom Moriarty: 00:16:49 facilitators from a place of fear and concern about their Tom Moriarty: 00:16:53 ability to effectively deliver the content over zoom? You know, Tom Moriarty: 00:16:56 how do you had to help them cross that hump? Tom Moriarty: 00:17:04 need to first of all apply a lot of patience and compassion Tom Moriarty: 00:17:07 towards people. And with that mindset, take next steps. So Tom Moriarty: 00:17:12 first of all, you know, I played a role in helping them visualize Tom Moriarty: 00:17:20 what you know, the redesigned experience could look like. So Tom Moriarty: 00:17:27 really talk to people about specifics how it can Tom Moriarty: 00:17:30 specifically work and share your own experience with them, show Tom Moriarty: 00:17:34 them, tell them, engage them, yes, show them some past Tom Moriarty: 00:17:39 examples to again, because otherwise, people build stories Tom Moriarty: 00:17:43 in their heads, you know, they conceptualize and they go off on Tom Moriarty: 00:17:46 a tangent, because they don't have that particular experience. Tom Moriarty: 00:17:50 So they're just making up things in their head basically. Tom Moriarty: 00:17:53 Right, as we all do. Mary Glowacka: 00:17:56 So to mitigate some of that fear, I believe, Mary Glowacka: 00:17:59 show them past examples, right? Engage them in that way. And Mary Glowacka: 00:18:04 then also, again, for me, it's, it's important that, you know, Mary Glowacka: 00:18:08 you engage these key stakeholders in co-creating the Mary Glowacka: 00:18:13 plan and the strategy with you for that new program. So they Mary Glowacka: 00:18:16 were part of building the strategy, I thought it was Mary Glowacka: 00:18:21 important that they have a voice. Because they ultimately Mary Glowacka: 00:18:26 are accountable for delivering the content, so co-creating and Mary Glowacka: 00:18:30 engaging them in that way. And the other thing was that the we Mary Glowacka: 00:18:35 put them through another train the trainer program. So that was Mary Glowacka: 00:18:38 another element of reassurance that look, you already have the Mary Glowacka: 00:18:42 subject matter knowledge, because that was also part of Mary Glowacka: 00:18:46 their fear, then, are we going to have to repeat four months of Mary Glowacka: 00:18:50 this program, our accreditation program, and absolutely not, Mary Glowacka: 00:18:54 because you already have the subject matter knowledge, right, Mary Glowacka: 00:18:57 you already know the information that you need to relate to your Mary Glowacka: 00:19:02 audiences, it will be a different way in which you will Mary Glowacka: 00:19:05 do it. So we will focus, we focus on the the additional Mary Glowacka: 00:19:12 Train the Trainer purely on those remote facilitation Mary Glowacka: 00:19:16 skills. So what that meant is, again, we reassured them that Mary Glowacka: 00:19:20 hey, you know, more than you feel or think you do at this Mary Glowacka: 00:19:25 point in time, and we're not gonna put you through the paces. Mary Glowacka: 00:19:29 Again, we will focus on your virtual facilitation skills. Tom Moriarty: 00:19:32 Obviously, I think there's a lot of facilitators Tom Moriarty: 00:19:35 out there in our audience, listening, you know, they've Tom Moriarty: 00:19:39 had, obviously, over the last 24 months, a lot of opportunity to Tom Moriarty: 00:19:44 start to build those facilitate virtual facilitation skills, but Tom Moriarty: 00:19:50 if there was like one or two very specific takeaways we could Tom Moriarty: 00:19:55 offer for them that maybe was in that train the trainer that you Tom Moriarty: 00:19:59 did for Are all the facilitators that you were teaching to make Tom Moriarty: 00:20:02 for a very effective virtual facilitation? What are like one Tom Moriarty: 00:20:07 or two key key things you would give to our virtual facilitators Tom Moriarty: 00:20:10 out there that they can be doing to make sure they're as Tom Moriarty: 00:20:15 effective as possible when when, you know, facilitating a class Tom Moriarty: 00:20:18 virtually? Mary Glowacka: 00:20:19 Well, you know, to be brief, I think one thing I Mary Glowacka: 00:20:22 would say is the operative word for me here is intentionality. Mary Glowacka: 00:20:26 It's a bit of a tongue twister for me. But intentionality. What Mary Glowacka: 00:20:31 I mean by that is a little bit like with hybrid work in Mary Glowacka: 00:20:35 general, when you're at the office, or in a classroom, yes. Mary Glowacka: 00:20:41 When we talk about training, there are moments that happen Mary Glowacka: 00:20:45 spontaneously and communication and exchange of thoughts, Mary Glowacka: 00:20:49 opinions, sometimes this happens spontaneously, right? You, you Mary Glowacka: 00:20:53 catch someone's eye in the room, and you you know, exchange a Mary Glowacka: 00:20:57 couple of thoughts or someone spontaneously makes a comment in Mary Glowacka: 00:21:00 the room because you know, you feel you feel the room, right? Mary Glowacka: 00:21:04 When you're on your own, like I am now in my house, I don't have Mary Glowacka: 00:21:08 anyone around me to interact with. So I need to be more Mary Glowacka: 00:21:12 intentional with how I interact with people. So perhaps, you Mary Glowacka: 00:21:16 know, whatever application use Zoom, WebEx, MS teams doesn't Mary Glowacka: 00:21:21 matter. But post something or ask a question and say, pop your Mary Glowacka: 00:21:26 answer into the chat box or raise your hand or maybe you do Mary Glowacka: 00:21:30 a little poll for for 30 seconds, you know you for me, Mary Glowacka: 00:21:34 it's that intentionality. And those very, very small but Mary Glowacka: 00:21:41 consistent and constant throughout your session Mary Glowacka: 00:21:45 interactions. So we're not there to talk to people. So so that Mary Glowacka: 00:21:50 intentionality, I still think that one of the things that's Mary Glowacka: 00:21:54 common is, as a facilitator, the energy that you give to the Mary Glowacka: 00:21:58 room, whether it's a physical room, or it's a virtual room, Mary Glowacka: 00:22:02 people feel it, you know, if you project that energy, they will Mary Glowacka: 00:22:05 absorb it and give some of that back to you. Whether you're in a Mary Glowacka: 00:22:09 classroom or in a virtual environment. Tom Moriarty: 00:22:12 Yeah, I think those are two great takeaways to Tom Moriarty: 00:22:14 recap, I wrote that down and just be intentional on driving Tom Moriarty: 00:22:17 engagement, you have to be maybe a little bit more thoughtful of Tom Moriarty: 00:22:22 it than when you when you're facilitating in person, because Tom Moriarty: 00:22:25 when you're facilitating in person, it's almost something Tom Moriarty: 00:22:28 that's like, unconsciously competent, you don't even think Tom Moriarty: 00:22:32 about it, you just do it, right. And maybe in a virtual Tom Moriarty: 00:22:34 environment, you're more consciously competent, you have Tom Moriarty: 00:22:36 to think about it to be doing it. But make sure you're being Tom Moriarty: 00:22:40 intentional about that engagement, you're driving with Tom Moriarty: 00:22:42 your audience, and then be the energy. And I couldn't agree Tom Moriarty: 00:22:46 more I you know, it's something, you know, definitely not a Tom Moriarty: 00:22:49 learning and development professional by trade, although Tom Moriarty: 00:22:52 I've worked with them constantly over the last 10 years in my Tom Moriarty: 00:22:55 career, but in a sales or customer facing perspective, I Tom Moriarty: 00:23:00 think that's one of the biggest things I tell my team all the Tom Moriarty: 00:23:02 time is you are the energy that you bring. And so are your Tom Moriarty: 00:23:05 customers, right? They're gonna react to the energy that you Tom Moriarty: 00:23:08 bring to any discussion. So make it positive, make it fun, make Tom Moriarty: 00:23:12 it enjoyable, because, you know, why not enjoy ourselves while Tom Moriarty: 00:23:15 we're here? Mary Glowacka: 00:23:17 Exactly right. And your audience will feel it Mary Glowacka: 00:23:19 as well, if you're enjoying it. Tom Moriarty: 00:23:21 One thing, just to get back to something you Tom Moriarty: 00:23:23 mentioned earlier, you touched on all of the changes that you Tom Moriarty: 00:23:26 guys needed to do to convert the program to virtual and one of Tom Moriarty: 00:23:29 the ones you touched on was the content itself. Can you tell us Tom Moriarty: 00:23:34 about some of those content changes that you guys had to Tom Moriarty: 00:23:38 make to the program to allow it to be more effective to deliver Tom Moriarty: 00:23:42 virtually? Mary Glowacka: 00:23:43 Oh, goodness, I guess I remember a couple of Mary Glowacka: 00:23:46 things from that. Again, when we introduced to more of those Mary Glowacka: 00:23:52 smaller interactions. So like, do a little poll, for example, Mary Glowacka: 00:23:58 you know, every every five or 10 minutes, you know, to keep the Mary Glowacka: 00:24:01 engagement whereby in the classroom, you want to just, you Mary Glowacka: 00:24:05 know, you would just I don't know, ask people to stand up for Mary Glowacka: 00:24:09 two minutes. And, you know, and walk around a little bit. You Mary Glowacka: 00:24:12 know, sometimes trainers do these things in the room, which, Mary Glowacka: 00:24:16 you know, which which are a little bit rogue, but they're Mary Glowacka: 00:24:18 also needed, and, you know, they keep the people engaged, right, Mary Glowacka: 00:24:22 something I didn't mention, but that had a little bit of an Mary Glowacka: 00:24:25 impact on the content as well. Well, not necessarily on the Mary Glowacka: 00:24:28 technical subject matter information or knowledge, but Mary Glowacka: 00:24:33 some of the positioning of some of the key messages because Mary Glowacka: 00:24:37 let's remember, originally, our strategy was to target the Mary Glowacka: 00:24:41 manager population with with this program, and managers would Mary Glowacka: 00:24:46 get a couple of additional resources from us and then Mary Glowacka: 00:24:49 managers would go back to their teams and they did however they Mary Glowacka: 00:24:54 wanted, right. But one of what I believe was actually the...the Mary Glowacka: 00:25:00 greatest benefit of us changing the strategy again, through, not Mary Glowacka: 00:25:06 through, you know, us being intentional about it, but Mary Glowacka: 00:25:10 through external, external factors. But I believe that that Mary Glowacka: 00:25:13 was one of the biggest Silver Linings there is that we Mary Glowacka: 00:25:17 proposed if we've got no traveling costs, if we've got no Mary Glowacka: 00:25:21 venue issues, because also remember, you know, you've got Mary Glowacka: 00:25:25 to have rooms big enough to, to help these people in right? Mary Glowacka: 00:25:30 Look, long story short, we opened the program to all Mary Glowacka: 00:25:33 employees all two hundreds thousand- over 200,000 of them, Mary Glowacka: 00:25:37 because suddenly, if your strategy is completely virtual, Mary Glowacka: 00:25:42 why not open it up to everybody? Why not. And it's become the Mary Glowacka: 00:25:46 most inclusive program across the bank. That was literally Mary Glowacka: 00:25:51 there was nothing else from a learning and development Mary Glowacka: 00:25:54 perspective at the time that every and any employee in the Mary Glowacka: 00:25:58 bank could take advantage of, not to mention that the topic of Mary Glowacka: 00:26:03 emotional wellness and mental health and well being is Mary Glowacka: 00:26:07 applicable to all of us, you know. Tom Moriarty: 00:26:10 Especially in the context of the times. Mary Glowacka: 00:26:13 Absolutely, yes. Tom Moriarty: 00:26:15 Yeah, that's great. I think, you know, as it Tom Moriarty: 00:26:19 as it as another takeaway there, I think that that highlight of, Tom Moriarty: 00:26:22 of being thoughtful about those small interactions and those Tom Moriarty: 00:26:26 breaks in, in heavy technical subject matter. And building in Tom Moriarty: 00:26:32 more of those little micro breaks or engagements for that Tom Moriarty: 00:26:35 virtual audience is a is an important and, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:26:39 thoughtful content design change that people out there out there Tom Moriarty: 00:26:43 in the audience can hopefully take away and consider if Tom Moriarty: 00:26:46 they're not doing today already, and in how this, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:26:49 modify programs from instructor led in person to more virtual Tom Moriarty: 00:26:53 programs. You know, you mentioned, I think that that's, Tom Moriarty: 00:26:55 that's a great takeaway, it actually kind of answers starts Tom Moriarty: 00:26:59 to be an answer to one of my, one of my other questions, what Tom Moriarty: 00:27:02 are some of the outcomes you believe that you guys were able Tom Moriarty: 00:27:05 to achieve because it was virtual, that maybe weren't Tom Moriarty: 00:27:08 planned or you didn't, you weren't able to see during that Tom Moriarty: 00:27:11 pivot? Mary Glowacka: 00:27:12 First thing is speed of implementation. And Mary Glowacka: 00:27:16 what I mean by that is, again, in the original plan, you know, Mary Glowacka: 00:27:21 there was an element of travel and to, you know, obviously, Mary Glowacka: 00:27:25 you're planning within the means that you have as well. So we Mary Glowacka: 00:27:29 were using internal facilities, available in all those different Mary Glowacka: 00:27:34 hubs. So we were, in many ways limited by by the sizes of the Mary Glowacka: 00:27:38 rooms, and we couldn't have more than a particular number of Mary Glowacka: 00:27:43 people in those rooms. So again, accelerate a little bit. And as Mary Glowacka: 00:27:47 you can imagine, again, this was a multi year program, so no one Mary Glowacka: 00:27:51 expected us to run with it within a year and finish it. But Mary Glowacka: 00:27:56 it was going to be multi multi, a multi multi year program, Mary Glowacka: 00:28:00 which again, suddenly, we were able to reach people much Mary Glowacka: 00:28:04 faster, because we could have unlimited number of people at Mary Glowacka: 00:28:08 every session, because again, that's how it was designed, Mary Glowacka: 00:28:11 really, in the very short instance, that we didn't have to Mary Glowacka: 00:28:15 limit the number of participants in the session. So so so you Mary Glowacka: 00:28:21 can, you know, you can reach your audience is much faster. Mary Glowacka: 00:28:25 And then when you think about the subject matter, you do want Mary Glowacka: 00:28:29 to reach people fast when it comes to mental and emotional Mary Glowacka: 00:28:33 health support. At the best of times, because we know how much Mary Glowacka: 00:28:41 how big a challenge globally around the world, you know, Mary Glowacka: 00:28:46 mental health is really these days. So let alone that but also Mary Glowacka: 00:28:52 think about the timing. It was at the start of the pandemic, Mary Glowacka: 00:28:56 people were panicking, I remember very well because I Mary Glowacka: 00:28:59 worked with people who when they heard that they will need to Mary Glowacka: 00:29:02 work from home now. They they had feared they would come to me Mary Glowacka: 00:29:06 and say, "I've worked at the bank for 15 years, and I never Mary Glowacka: 00:29:11 worked at home once I don't even know how I how do I start, Mary Glowacka: 00:29:15 right? Where do I start?" And so that's speed and especially when Mary Glowacka: 00:29:23 you consider the importance of the topic. And on top of that Mary Glowacka: 00:29:27 you add the timing, you know, then to me that speed is even Mary Glowacka: 00:29:33 more important to get getting through to people as quickly as Mary Glowacka: 00:29:37 possible. And I again, I remember, as we started, you Mary Glowacka: 00:29:42 know, when we finally launched and we started running with it Mary Glowacka: 00:29:45 and we start getting feedback, we will get feedback from people Mary Glowacka: 00:29:48 that this was the best learning experience in their life. I had Mary Glowacka: 00:29:54 feedback that someone, I will never forget it, said, "this Mary Glowacka: 00:29:58 changed... this will change my life." It's because I think Mary Glowacka: 00:30:01 completely differently about me as a human being right now, Mary Glowacka: 00:30:05 because that's how it was all designed to create those aha Mary Glowacka: 00:30:09 moments to show people that, you know, for example, if you say Mary Glowacka: 00:30:12 you can function properly on four hours of sleep, that's Mary Glowacka: 00:30:16 biologically not possible, you know, you will start struggling Mary Glowacka: 00:30:21 at some point, you know, because, because you will, and Mary Glowacka: 00:30:25 there are reasons for it. Anyway, so we, the program Mary Glowacka: 00:30:30 really aimed to not only arm people with tactics and Mary Glowacka: 00:30:34 strategies for building personal resilience and looking after Mary Glowacka: 00:30:38 yourself, especially in difficult times, but also to Mary Glowacka: 00:30:42 hopefully change some of your beliefs about your own limits as Mary Glowacka: 00:30:47 a human being when it comes to health. Tom Moriarty: 00:30:49 Yeah, that's I mean, that's the two I take away Tom Moriarty: 00:30:52 there are the, you know, I think that the, I think, you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:30:56 there's one, there's that that perfect storm, right, it Tom Moriarty: 00:30:59 actually, you know, at the beginning, it probably looked Tom Moriarty: 00:31:03 terrifying and daunting and frustrating to have worked so Tom Moriarty: 00:31:07 hard for so long on such a large, large program, that you Tom Moriarty: 00:31:10 had a clear plan for that you're going to execute that you're Tom Moriarty: 00:31:13 going to deliver, and then have to flip it on its head. But I Tom Moriarty: 00:31:16 think the benefits of what happened after doing that with Tom Moriarty: 00:31:20 the speed in which you guys were able to get it out on such a Tom Moriarty: 00:31:24 important topic at such an important time in the world. And Tom Moriarty: 00:31:28 then the accessibility change that existed by being able to Tom Moriarty: 00:31:33 reach directly reach as much of the bank as possible, which Tom Moriarty: 00:31:38 wasn't even a practical consideration in the original Tom Moriarty: 00:31:42 design of the program. You know, it almost, it's almost as if the Tom Moriarty: 00:31:46 benefits, and those outcomes of that change probably, in Tom Moriarty: 00:31:50 retrospect outweighed the challenge of having to change Tom Moriarty: 00:31:54 and having to pivot. Mary Glowacka: 00:31:55 I would add one other thing, I think it's quite Mary Glowacka: 00:31:57 important, actually about consistency as well, because Mary Glowacka: 00:32:01 again, if you think about it, the original strategy was Mary Glowacka: 00:32:04 designed that trained, accredited, professionally Mary Glowacka: 00:32:09 trained for four months facilitators would deliver it to Mary Glowacka: 00:32:12 managers, and then managers who are not trained to that extent Mary Glowacka: 00:32:17 would take those messages to their teams. And with all due Mary Glowacka: 00:32:20 respect, there would be managers who do a great job, there will Mary Glowacka: 00:32:24 be managers who wouldn't, for a number of reasons. Tom Moriarty: 00:32:27 Yeah. Mary Glowacka: 00:32:28 And in the new strategy, we were consistently Mary Glowacka: 00:32:31 giving the same message to everybody. And that message was Mary Glowacka: 00:32:35 given by people who weren't professionally trained for four Mary Glowacka: 00:32:38 months to do it. Tom Moriarty: 00:32:40 That's a great one. That's super, I'm glad you Tom Moriarty: 00:32:41 jumped in. I'm super glad that you added that because it is Tom Moriarty: 00:32:44 that's a hugely important difference, right? I think that Tom Moriarty: 00:32:47 if our audience wants to take one thing away, that, to me Tom Moriarty: 00:32:51 stands out is here, regardless of what the next 24-48 months of Tom Moriarty: 00:32:56 our worlds look like, you know, there's a tool here that a lot Tom Moriarty: 00:33:02 of people started to exercise some muscles in. And that is Tom Moriarty: 00:33:05 hybrid delivery. That if you're thinking about supporting an Tom Moriarty: 00:33:10 audience, that is needs to be, you know, a piece of delivering Tom Moriarty: 00:33:15 a piece of content that needs to be widely accessible, that needs Tom Moriarty: 00:33:18 to get out to an audience quickly, where you need to Tom Moriarty: 00:33:21 ensure consistency of communication. And this is a Tom Moriarty: 00:33:25 tool in your belt, it's a benefit of what's happened over Tom Moriarty: 00:33:27 the last 24 to 48 months, if you if you've learned how to Tom Moriarty: 00:33:30 exercise the muscle of delivering hybrid learning, you Tom Moriarty: 00:33:33 know, don't forget to assess your strategy. And if the Tom Moriarty: 00:33:37 requirements of your program include, you know, speed to Tom Moriarty: 00:33:42 market, easy accessibility for a large audience and consistency Tom Moriarty: 00:33:46 of delivery. So you've got a good tool for that. And you've Tom Moriarty: 00:33:49 probably gotten really effective at delivering using a hybrid Tom Moriarty: 00:33:53 model or virtual model in the last, you know, 24 to 48 months. Tom Moriarty: 00:33:58 One other question. You know, this was a very visible program, Tom Moriarty: 00:34:04 as we started out earlier, I don't want to lose sight of the Tom Moriarty: 00:34:06 fact that you are leading a program that's co sponsored, Tom Moriarty: 00:34:09 right? Working across a number of stakeholders managing that, Tom Moriarty: 00:34:12 what was the perspective of the sponsors on the program after Tom Moriarty: 00:34:17 the pivot? They obviously had goals and business outcomes they Tom Moriarty: 00:34:20 were expecting your CEO was expecting to achieve? What kind Tom Moriarty: 00:34:24 of feedback did you...we've heard of the amazing feedback Tom Moriarty: 00:34:27 from the facilitators from the learners themselves. What kind Tom Moriarty: 00:34:31 of feedback did you get from the stakeholders? Mary Glowacka: 00:34:33 Pretty similar in nature, to be honest, because Mary Glowacka: 00:34:37 actually, we as part of the kickoff, and the very start Mary Glowacka: 00:34:41 first, we invited our top executives from the bank to go Mary Glowacka: 00:34:45 through it and feedback from them was was really glowing. And Mary Glowacka: 00:34:50 I know that sounds like Nirvana. But look... Again, I believe I Mary Glowacka: 00:34:55 believe that ultimately, and normally, I believe, I believe Mary Glowacka: 00:34:59 because of my experiences that ultimately to someone like your Mary Glowacka: 00:35:04 leadership teams in the business, it doesn't matter Mary Glowacka: 00:35:08 necessarily how exactly you're going to do it, as long as it Mary Glowacka: 00:35:12 brings about the results that they were all expecting. And, Mary Glowacka: 00:35:17 and in fact, we exceeded their expectations if you think about Mary Glowacka: 00:35:21 it, because first of all, again, something we didn't mention, but Mary Glowacka: 00:35:26 you know, a little bit more detailed. The plan was really Mary Glowacka: 00:35:30 that it will take us about three years to go through this to Mary Glowacka: 00:35:35 complete this program. And then when you think about cost of travel: 00:35:40 it's travel, it's hotels, it's providing food. I travel: 00:35:44 mean, that's, that's a huge budget. We also saved a lot of travel: 00:35:48 time, because, look, I am all for a human-to-human connection travel: 00:35:53 I am, I love getting together with people, I love the energy travel: 00:35:57 that a group of people can generate when they are in one travel: 00:36:02 room together. But again, many people think, Oh, it's so fancy travel: 00:36:06 to travel, you know, on the one hand, maybe it is. But a lot of travel: 00:36:11 the time, the reality is that, you know, especially back in the travel: 00:36:16 day that you would go to a two-day course, ultimately, travel: 00:36:20 you're using four days in your week, because you might take one travel: 00:36:25 day to travel, two days of the course, one more day to travel, travel: 00:36:29 depending on how you know where you're going, how your flights travel: 00:36:34 are organized, and so on. So, yeah, so really, and the quality travel: 00:36:39 of the output was still exactly what we expected, you know, same travel: 00:36:43 content is delivered differently, delivered by people travel: 00:36:47 who are professionally equipped and prepared to do this cost travel: 00:36:52 time reduction. In inclusivity, increase speed to market I mean, travel: 00:36:57 you know, it's a whole list of benefits, really, if you think travel: 00:37:01 about it. Tom Moriarty: 00:37:03 Yeah, yeah, that's great. I mean, it's, I think Tom Moriarty: 00:37:05 it's great. But at some point, I didn't want our listeners to Tom Moriarty: 00:37:09 miss, right, because I think that to your point, it's not Tom Moriarty: 00:37:11 just the benefits to the team executing the program, through Tom Moriarty: 00:37:16 the change, because there was clearly benefits there. It's not Tom Moriarty: 00:37:18 just the benefits to the learners. But there's clear, Tom Moriarty: 00:37:21 quantifiable benefits to the stakeholders that are supporting Tom Moriarty: 00:37:25 and funding this effort. And I think also the takeaway of, of, Tom Moriarty: 00:37:31 for a program that's large, you know, make sure those Tom Moriarty: 00:37:33 stakeholders are in the first class, and that they're bought Tom Moriarty: 00:37:35 into the delivery as you continue to roll that out. I Tom Moriarty: 00:37:38 think that's a, an actionable thought that our audience can Tom Moriarty: 00:37:41 take away after, if that's not something that they're already Tom Moriarty: 00:37:43 doing. Mary Glowacka: 00:37:43 Really, business sponsorship, and leadership Mary Glowacka: 00:37:46 sponsorship for any learning and development programs, since Mary Glowacka: 00:37:51 we're focusing on programs here today, is is incredibly, Mary Glowacka: 00:37:56 incredibly impactful. If the business leaders don't care Mary Glowacka: 00:37:59 about your programs, or teams will not care about the program, Mary Glowacka: 00:38:02 and vice versa. Tom Moriarty: 00:38:04 Yeah, I've seen that myself. Even in in, we've Tom Moriarty: 00:38:07 brought in over the course of my career at Mimeo, we've brought Tom Moriarty: 00:38:10 in outside agencies, customers, in fact, to help deliver sales Tom Moriarty: 00:38:15 training to our organization. And, you know, one that I can Tom Moriarty: 00:38:19 think of, we did with Richardson and all of our leaders did it Tom Moriarty: 00:38:24 first. We were super, we loved it, like we, we had so much fun, Tom Moriarty: 00:38:28 we were like, "Oh, I can't wait for our teams do this." And it Tom Moriarty: 00:38:30 was great. Our team still, I still have people who bring that Tom Moriarty: 00:38:33 up all the time. Right. And I think that that is a difference. Tom Moriarty: 00:38:36 So I think that's a huge takeaway. Mary, I just want to Tom Moriarty: 00:38:40 stop and say kudos to you and your entire team. I mean, that's Tom Moriarty: 00:38:43 a it's an incredible story. I really appreciate you sharing Tom Moriarty: 00:38:46 it. And that's quite the accomplishment, the end of the Tom Moriarty: 00:38:49 day. I mean, you guys did I think what any professional would do: 00:38:52 you looked at the reality of the situation, and would do: 00:38:54 understood what the requirements were and you move forward to the would do: 00:38:57 best of your ability and the outcome that you guys were able would do: 00:39:00 to achieve with you know, improved speed to market reduced would do: 00:39:03 budget, travel expense, accessibility to even more of would do: 00:39:08 the bank with content that was super important at a super would do: 00:39:11 important time. Not just professionally, but personally would do: 00:39:15 for the people that work for you guys. I mean, that's something would do: 00:39:18 awesome and I can only imagine the impact that had you know, would do: 00:39:23 for the team and the employees at Bank of America. So thank you would do: 00:39:26 for for sharing the story. There's a... I guess one last would do: 00:39:29 thing before we wrap here today, you've shared a lot you've got a would do: 00:39:32 lot of experience if our if our listeners want to learn more would do: 00:39:35 about you or reach out or learn more about the story and would do: 00:39:38 specifics where where can they find you socially on LinkedIn or would do: 00:39:41 anything like that? What's the best way for our listeners to would do: 00:39:44 reach out and learn more about you and your story? Mary Glowacka: 00:39:45 Yes, I'd love to connect with anyone who who Mary Glowacka: 00:39:49 would like to as well. I love collaborating and and and Mary Glowacka: 00:39:55 meeting new people as well. So would be fantastic is you can Mary Glowacka: 00:39:58 find me on LinkedIn. Well just pop in my name and my last name. Mary Glowacka: 00:40:03 And you'll find me if any of you are members of the Josh Burson Mary Glowacka: 00:40:07 Academy. I'm also their senior faculty there. And you can find Mary Glowacka: 00:40:13 me in the Hacking HR community as well. So if you are not Mary Glowacka: 00:40:16 familiar with that community, also check it out on LinkedIn. Mary Glowacka: 00:40:19 We've got over 200,000 followers, I think. So Hacking Mary Glowacka: 00:40:24 HR. But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. So please connect. Tom Moriarty: 00:40:28 That's great. Awesome. Well, Mary, thank you Tom Moriarty: 00:40:30 so much for your time today. Thank you for your story. And Tom Moriarty: 00:40:33 thank you for your you and your team's contribution to you know, Tom Moriarty: 00:40:37 the wellness of 200,000 Bank of America employees. I think it's Tom Moriarty: 00:40:41 an awesome story and really appreciate it. Mary Glowacka: 00:40:44 Well, it's a you know, it takes a village to Mary Glowacka: 00:40:46 deliver a project but thank you so much for listening and for Mary Glowacka: 00:40:51 being here with us today. I really enjoyed it. Thanks, Tom. Tom Moriarty: 00:40:54 The Secret Society of Success is hosted by Mimeo, Tom Moriarty: 00:40:57 the better way to print. Check out our sister podcast, Talk of Tom Moriarty: 00:41:00 the Trade, for tips and tricks for sales and marketing leaders. Tom Moriarty: 00:41:03 Visit www.mimeo.com for more information